Capa or Fila? True or false?

tlindsey

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thebiggerthebetter

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Yeah, this has been a controversy for a while and I don't have 100% definitive answers, instead only my personal take.

[1] The photographed "capapretum" from Malon-monsters vendor for $90 are the same "Peru piraiba" as Rodrigo of Predatory Fins was selling too (for about $65 on sale), which I saw in person, and both Malone and Rod, it appears, are "forced" by the community at large to label them capapretum. Or maybe they do sincerely think so too. IDK. Why? From Rod's words to me this is because peers, their buyers believe / say that "Peru piraiba" don't exceed 3ft or a bit over (some things like this we hear from our SE Asian peers too GiantFishKeeper101 GiantFishKeeper101 ) and hence cannot be true piraiba, aka filamentosum, such as those from Suriname (maybe other places too? Brazil? Guyana? IDK) which easily and relatively quickly grow to 4'-5' and more.

[2] Our experience confirms this growth rate and/or size disparity as our two "Peru piraiba" have been stuck at the same size for years and grow very, very slowly and are still well under 3 ft, maybe around 2.5ft, after 5 years, while our 7 yo Suriname is around 5 ft and keeps growing; it was 4 ft at 5 years old.

[3] From the photographs on our MFK threads, capapretum babies and juvies look distinctly different from filamentosum and with my present limited knowledge I identify Malon's and Rod's fish as filamentosum, not capapretum.

Maybe there are more than 2 species? Capa was split from fila only in 2005...

That's the controversy as far as I can tell, in my mind.

***Bottom superficial line is that if Malone and Rod sold them as filamentosum and priced them accordingly higher, their buyers wouldn't buy or probably would feel cheated by being sold "a sub par growing filamentosum". No vendor wants that.

***Bottom taxonomic line: there is a mystery to me at least, why Peru filamentosum are so slow and/or small growing, on par with capapretum which grow to 3'-4' even in the wild.
 
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Dermifrost

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Dec 20, 2021
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Yeah, this has been a controversy for a while and I don't have 100% definitive answers, instead only my personal take.

[1] The photographed "capapretum" from Malon-monsters vendor for $90 are the same "Peru piraiba" as Rodrigo of Predatory Fins was selling too (for about $65 on sale), which I saw in person, and both Malone and Rod, it appears, are "forced" by the community at large to label them capapretum. Or maybe they do sincerely think so too. IDK. Why? From Rod's words to me this is because peers, their buyers believe / say that "Peru piraiba" don't exceed 3ft or a bit over (some things like this we hear from our SE Asian peers too GiantFishKeeper101 GiantFishKeeper101 ) and hence cannot be true piraiba, aka filamentosum, such as those from Suriname (maybe other places too? Brazil? Guyana? IDK) which easily and relatively quickly grow to 4'-5' and more.

[2] Our experience confirms this growth rate and/or size disparity as our two "Peru piraiba" have been stuck at the same size for years and grow very, very slowly and are still well under 3 ft, maybe around 2.5ft, after 5 years, while our 7 yo Suriname is around 5 ft and keeps growing; it was 4 ft at 5 years old.

[3] From the photographs on our MFK threads, capapretum babies and juvies look distinctly different from filamentosum and with my present limited knowledge I identify Malon's and Rod's fish as filamentosum, not capapretum.

Maybe there are more than 2 species? Capa was split from fila only in 2005...

That's the controversy as far as I can tell, in my mind.

***Bottom superficial line is that if Malone and Rod sold them as filamentosum and priced them accordingly higher, their buyers wouldn't buy or probably would feel cheated by being sold "a sub par growing filamentosum". No vendor wants that.

***Bottom taxonomic line: there is a mystery to me at least, why Peru filamentosum are so slow and/or small growing, on par with capapretum which grow to 3'-4' even in the wild.
Thank you Viktor!
 
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thebiggerthebetter

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I think this is a related case: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/peru-piraiba.744893

My humble input:

Beautiful fish and shot.

I agree with you on the ID of a true filamentosum despite all the opposition from other peers, who adamantly say Peru piraiba are the false piraiba aka capapretum. This is so prevalent down here in Florida that Rodrigo of Predatory Fins is forced to sell tankfulls of Peru piraiba as capapretum for $65, because he is told by peers and his buyers that Peru piraiba doesn't exceed 3' for many years in captivity, or maybe ever, but true piraiba (and they mean here in part the Suriname piraiba) reach 4'-5' in 5 years in captivity and keep growing.

The growth rate disparity is true in our 1sthand experience as we have two 5 yo Peru stuck at 2.5'-3' and one 4.5'-5', 6yo Suriname that keeps growing... but from all my knowledge capapretum look distinctly different, especially when younger, babies and young juvies. Yours above I'd ID as true filamentosum in my present knowledge, of indeed Peru variety.
 

thebiggerthebetter

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EAC007219 EAC007219 Because it is a "Peru piraiba" and there is a widespread lack of understanding among the peers as to the growth rate and max size and the species ID of these fish, coming from different vendors - Wesley Wong (I have to guess you got yours from Wesley because of the typo in your ad), Malone's monsters, Predatory Fins, Exotic Fish Shop, etc.

This thread started by Dermifrost (thanks to him) is a tip of the iceberg. I have started to run into this issue often and would love to get it solved or start on the journey of solving it eventually. Hence, I'd love the community help and input, or at least start raising awareness that this issue exists.
 
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