CB F1 Pearl/Leo hybrid pups AMAZING

[rayman]

Hi Alex,

And what I´m not sure for is that for example one batch is half hybrid-look and half like one part of the parents. So are the half 100% pure non-hybrids if of that kind a male was in the tank too?!
So can a female safe sperm from two different males?

Yes, the female can mate with different males and then some of the pups are hybrids while others are purebreed. I was told that this happend with motoro/leopoldi. In that tank was a leopoldi pair and a motoro male. After some litter with only hybrids there was a mixed litter, hybrids and pure leopoldi.

 

[csx4236]

Hi Alex,


Yes, the female can mate with different males and then some of the pups are hybrids while others are purebreed. I was told that this happend with motoro/leopoldi. In that tank was a leopoldi pair and a motoro male. After some litter with only hybrids there was a mixed litter, hybrids and pure leopoldi.

Thats very interesting, Cause i have male pearl and male leo in with my females so i could possible get pure leo and hybrids very cool.

 

[amazongirl]

Hi Alex,


Yes, the female can mate with different males and then some of the pups are hybrids while others are purebreed. I was told that this happend with motoro/leopoldi. In that tank was a leopoldi pair and a motoro male. After some litter with only hybrids there was a mixed litter, hybrids and pure leopoldi.

I think this is an interesting theory. There are elasmos that can store sperm and have mixed parentage. That said, unless you have done genetic testing for paternity (which I would love to hear about) this is just a theory. I do not believe that you can tell just by how they look. It is not unreasonable to think that in a batch of hybrids you could have some that look like either parents and some that have a combination of their features.

 

[rayman]

Thats very interesting, Cause i have male pearl and male leo in with my females so i could possible get pure leo and hybrids very cool.

It can be very tricky.
Another breeder had a pair of leopoldi and a pair of pearls together.
The leo male mated with the pearl female and produced three hybrids. But the breeder wanted pure pearls, so he divided the tank, one side the leo pair and the other side the pearl pair. But the males did not mate with the right females. The leo male and pearl female did always swimm at the divider and tried to come together again ...
The breeder decided to sell the leo male and then the pearl pair produced pure pearl pups. But the pearl male did not mate with the leo female. Two years after one of the leo x pearl hybrids of the first litter (a male) became mature and mate with the leo female.
And one litter of the pearl female now looks like three pure pearls and one hybrid.
So if you have males and females of differend species in the tank you will never know how they mix. Sometimes they produce only purebreed pups and then they mix up everything ...

 

[jdepasqu2]

I'M GETTING CONFUSED.....

DID YOU JUST DESCRIBE SOME INBREEDING.....???

 

[rayman]

I think this is an interesting theory. There are elasmos that can store sperm and have mixed parentage. That said, unless you have done genetic testing for paternity (which I would love to hear about) this is just a theory. I do not believe that you can tell just by how they look. It is not unreasonable to think that in a batch of hybrids you could have some that look like either parents and some that have a combination of their features.

Hi, sorry but I did no genetic testing. I'm not a scientist. This is just my theory based on the pattern of the pups. This pair produced many hybrids, each with slightly different coloration. They all showed a mix of leo and motoro colours (very dark brown with white, orange or yellow spots) and some light lines in the center of the disk. But one of the pups looked like a pure leopoldi, black and white and only spots, no lines.

What I've read about hybrids is, that the F1 should show uniform pattern and in F2 they split and some show the pattern of the grandparents.

 

[nickdog98]

Oh boy what did I stir up now?!? This is an amazing conversation; I'm reading it like I read some scientific journal haha

 

[Alex.P]

When did i say that P14s and pearls didn't come from the same systems? I said leos and motoros didn't and P14 and pearls did.

Back to the subject, that is very interesting Andreas.

I never knew that when the hybrid pups bred with a ray from the same species as their mother or father they sometimes get pure blood pups.

 

[csx4236]

Oh boy what did I stir up now?!? This is an amazing conversation; I'm reading it like I read some scientific journal haha

Yeah you woke a sleeping giant lol rayman is a very good with is ray info should write his own book i would buy it.

 

[amazongirl]

I never knew that when the hybrid pups bred with a ray from the same species as their mother or father they sometimes get pure blood pups.

This is not possible. I don't want to speak for Andreas, but I think we may be talking about 2 different things. One is the way the ray looks- and the other is its genetic make-up. Once a ray is a hybrid, it cannot produce offspring that are not hybrids. You may get offspring whose patterns look like one species or the other, but it still carries the genes of the other species and will always produce other hybrids, even if most of it's genes come from one species (or it looks like one species).

This is a good illustration, in my opinion, of why it might be wise to not create hybrids. If an unsuspecting individual gets a cb hybrid that looks like it is not a hybrid and puts it in a breeding program the genetics get all screwed up for those who are trying to keep the species seperate. I think these animals are incredible enough without trying to create our own varieties.

Just my opinion...