ceramic rings

[Bderick67]

And it sickens me when you guys promote the BS hype that the media manufacturers have created...

When you "need" a fraction of the amount of surface area a tank has without bio media... then without bio media you already have several times more than you "need"... so none is already a safe pad...

Until you guys start putting experience behind your hype, I'm giong to keep calling you out on your false exaggerations...

What BS hype? Please show me somewhere that a credible media manufacturer suggests that more then a liter of their media would be needed for a 100g tank, other then maybe the bio balls.

Personally I'm not willing to risk the health of my fish, just to see how little media is actually needed

 

[FSM]

You will have way for biomedia/surface area than you need, so it doesn't matter whether you use ceramic, sintered glass, plastic, etc. You already have the ceramic rings, there is no reason to buy something else.

 

[Toby_H]

From what I read, bio media manufacturers do not really suggest how much bio media you should use per gallon. Instead they just boast about how much surface area per cubic inch their stuff has. From there retail clerks push products. Then people like you fail to gain a truthful understanding and pick up where the retail clerk left off… spreading misinformation…


The simple reality is… when you are starting with 10 times more than you’ll use.… I see no reason to pay money to give yourself 50 times more than you’ll use…


But if it makes you feel better to use it… then feel free spending your money to make yourself feel better. Just don’t lie to others and tell them they “need” to spend their money to make you feel better…

 

[Bderick67]

From what I read, bio media manufacturers do not really suggest how much bio media you should use per gallon. Instead they just boast about how much surface area per cubic inch their stuff has.

So basically this BS hype that you previously stated is non existent? Obviously they do not promote using unrealistic amounts of their product. They actually promote having to use less of their product then others because of the higher surface area.

From there retail clerks push products.

Now the assuming comes which you are so often guilty of. What did you incorrectly overhear a clerk giving advise to someone. In your attempt to eavesdrop are you sure you even got all the facts straight? In the case you did, you now can make the assumption that every clerk across the world is also doing the same.

Then people like you fail to gain a truthful understanding and pick up where the retail clerk left off… spreading misinformation…

This would be a matter of YOUR opinion. Your as guilty as spreading "misinformation"(just look at what the OP commented on your "info") telling someone they DON"T NEED BIO MEDIA and not even finding out a single fact about his tank or stock. Wow I guess you assume everybody has the exact same setup as you

The simple reality is… when you are starting with 10 times more than you’ll use.… I see no reason to pay money to give yourself 50 times more than you’ll use…

As correct as this is, you have little to back this statement up with. Well except maybe that 10g tank of yours

But if it makes you feel better to use it… then feel free spending your money to make yourself feel better. Just don’t lie to others and tell them they “need” to spend their money to make you feel better…

Yes it does make me feel better, with the money I spent on bio media(all 90 bucks or so) I know there won't be a problem with biologically filtering the 1200 plus gallons of tanks I'm Running

 

[brianp]

And it sickens me when you guys promote the BS hype that the media manufacturers have created...

When you "need" a fraction of the amount of surface area a tank has without bio media... then without bio media you already have several times more than you "need"... so none is already a safe pad...

Until you guys start putting experience behind your hype, I'm giong to keep calling you out on your false exaggerations...

OK...let's try it from this angle:

In many cases, the surface area provided IS NEEDED.

Also, please don't misquote me...I never said it was "better surface area", I clearly stated that it was MORE surface area.

 

[Toby_H]

When you "need" a fraction of the amount of surface area a tank has without bio media... then without bio media you already have several times more than you "need"... so none is already a safe pad...

OK...let's try it from this angle:

In many cases, the surface area provided IS NEEDED.

Just because you wrote it bigger doesn't make it true

Do you have any examples of a tank that does need bio media?

I have set up many tanks and have reviewed several of them in topics such as this. Bare 10 gal tank fishless cycled to oxidize 5 ppm ammonia into nitrates per day... Densely stocked 125 Gal with substrate, driftwood & rock work filtered by two AC110s w/ sponge only which is rinsed in chlorinated tap water weekly (tank consistently has 0ammonia/nitrite)... multiple 175 Gal systems (two 50 gals + 75 Gal plumbed together) filtered by a single AC110 and a 700 gph water pump, sponges/prefilters rinsed weekly with chlorinated tap water (system consistently has 0 ammonia/nitrite)... etc... etc...

Also, please don't misquote me...I never said it was "better surface area", I clearly stated that it was MORE surface area.

Brian, you are right you didn't say anything about "better" surface area... but you made the comparison about "better" weather proofer... I think it was an unparalleled example... It seems you do to now...

A better example would be... if one gallon of weather proofer suited your needs... would you have been better off to put 17 gallons of that weather proofer on? "More is better" does not always apply... Bio Media is one of those places...



BDerrick, your difficult to debate with... I've presented endless facts and experiences in numerous threads/debates and you just pick apart tangents and overlook details all the while not presenting anything to support your own speculation other than your own speculation...

Brian on the other hand comes from a logical perspective... I just disagree on a single assumption he makes...

 

[Bderick67]

As you have done with the one established tank I presented to you that did not work with the filter that was on it. Whatever assumption you want to make about that tank, I can guarantee removing the bio media and adding more flow to the tank would not have remedied the situation.

You fail to see that your experiences and tanks are only a small cross section of the fish keeping world. You cannot present that all tanks do not need bio media, heck you yourself have stated that you've never kept a heavy stocked bare bottom tank, right? Yet you would be so bold to tell a poster that he don't need bio media.

BTW...no your 10g does not count as a barebottom tank.

 

[brianp]

mmm...how to respond? My natural inclination is to get into a discussion about the fact that I work with particulate sorbents for a living, deal with surface areas, flow through particle beds, etc....but then, I would have to compromise my own argument by admitting that I work with DNA, RNA and protein...not nitrogenous waste.


So, I guess I'll just say the following. The use of biomedia is an individual choice, apparently based upon just how compelling you find the technology of particles comprised of high surface area materials. Some people like certain things and others don't. For example, I don't like Taco Bell and won't spend my money there.


BTW...my warmest regards to Detroit...I attended Wayne State long ago.

 

[brianhellno]

Hey llllllll,

I have a few questions. What kind of filter do you have? How big is the tank? And how many fish and what kind are in it?

I see you said you bought 15 pounds of ceramic rings, I'm going to take somewhat of a safe guess here and say you probably have enough. Also to answer your original question, it probably won't make a noticeable difference as far as the big ceramic rings or the small ceramic rings. Whichever choice you went with should be fine.

Also the guy who told you sintered glass or matrix glass is better, chances are even if that were true its not so much better that it would make any kind of real difference. Stick with what you already bought.

 

[Toby_H]

mmm...how to respond? My natural inclination is to get into a discussion about the fact that I work with particulate sorbents for a living, deal with surface areas, flow through particle beds, etc....but then, I would have to compromise my own argument by admitting that I work with DNA, RNA and protein...not nitrogenous waste.


So, I guess I'll just say the following. The use of biomedia is an individual choice, apparently based upon just how compelling you find the technology of particles comprised of high surface area materials. Some people like certain things and others don't. For example, I don't like Taco Bell and won't spend my money there.


BTW...my warmest regards to Detroit...I attended Wayne State long ago.

Hey education and career experience in Chemistry/Biology is very relevant here. I long to discuss such topics with educated individuals. My girl is pursuing her Masters in Genomics and works at her University's Chem Lab

I completely agree that whether or not to use it is a personal choice each of us has the individual right to make. I just hate seeing people insist "it is needed", when based on many years of personal experinece, in typical situations it isn't.

And hey, we do agree 100% on Taco Bell...

Feel free to share opposing perspectives on anything I have to offer on this topic (or others). Logical debate helps both sides, as well as the 'audience'...



and for the other extreme, lol...

BTW...no your 10g does not count as a barebottom tank.

Why?... Cause you said so...

And you are right, I have never kept overstocked bare bottomed tanks... which is why in conversations such as this that is the situation where I accept bio media may be needed... because I cannot speak on the situation from experience...

Dude, you're just funny sometimes...