CREATING THE ULTIMATE FILTRATION AND EVOLVING WITH YOUR FISH!!!!!!

[DB junkie]

So socks are flawed but the "holy" bead filter isn't?

LMFAO. Get some big rays and feed them.

I don't care what "reefers" or other "fishkeepers" have/use. I only care about what the guys producing the rays run. guess what? There's a VERY common trend. They scrapped the fancy bead filters and went back to socks and a moving bed.

Not sure how you guys are setting up your sock filtration but if you think socks are "flawed" then your attempt to run them was just that.... Flawed.

I have no problem whatsoever with mine. Now I'm nowhere near 9K gph through my sump. I'm only a measly 6-7K gph, but still at that my socks will go a week, possibly 2. the trrick is not to rely on single micron rating socks. I use 200/100s and all is well.

Don't get me wrong, IF I had the money I might try fancy big bead filters but I would expect the same result as others using them. The stingray poo to glue the media together.

But then again, it would probably be a cold day in hell before I ever bought a crate motor either. I enjoy this hobby cause I enjoy building/designing my own stuff.... To me that's half the fun. When it doesn't work you redesign. I feel like theres lots of hobbyists here that go out and buy the nicest filtration they can afford, expect it to perform like magic, and when it doesn't it's because their system was just too "manly" and they need something even better (more $).

 

[David R]

IMO the biggest problem with socks is when people rely on them solely for mechanical filtration in a heavily stocked set up. Yes it can work, but having some sort of pre-filter and using the socks to polish the water would be far more ideal, and is what I intend to have on my next sump. In the past I have spent far too much time worrying about bio capacity and nowhere near enough on mechanical filtration, and I intent to change that this time round.

A settling chamber would be neat. But that seems to be only feasible on very large systems. Not your average indoor tank.

My old settling chamber on my 210g tank.

I had a fairly 'oldschool' sump on that tank, a couple of sheets of sponge/wool sitting on top of the bioballs which were sitting on top of the submerged noodles (woefully inadequate mechanical, plenty of bio...) and I found when my old royal plec hit ~6" I was rinsing the wool every other day or it would clog and overflow. I took an old 30g tank, drilled a few holes in one end, added a couple of baffles and turned it into a pre-sump settling chamber. That one 6" royal would cover the base of the 30g in about 1/2" of 'sawdust' in a week, and my filter wool immediately began to last a week between changes. This is the very design I intend to incorperate into the design for my 450g sump, incorperating the improvements I've learned from doing it once, as a pre-filter before the socks to catch the crap from the 2-3 royals I intend to keep along with the other messy plecs.

Here is a very quick and rough MSPaint drawing of where I'm up to with my planning so far.

Not to any sort of scale, haven't finalised the dimensions either.
Basically the water flows out of the tank, into the settling chamber, then I'm thinking of some sort of coarse foam/matt as another pre-filter, and then into the socks. For the bio media I'm thinking of having some submerged (matrix or noodles) and if needed I have about 40L of bioballs that I could utilise in some sort of trickle tower as shown in green.

On the plus side is that the filtration will be plumbed thru the wall behind the tank into the garage so I will have at least the 8' length of the tank, plenty of width and unlimited height (not constrained by trying to have to fit it into a cabinet). The down side is that the top of the tank will only be about 1100mm high as I want the tank to be at the right height to view while sitting on a couch (and I don't want to need a ladder to work on it) so there isn't that much vertical fall to play with (although the head height for the return pump will be lower, which is a plus).

Looking forward to getting some feedback/suggestions/hate...

ps. I would get an Ultima in a heartbeat if they were available here, but despite how awesome they are I don't think the cost of shipping one half way around the world would justify it.

pps. I haven't really researched "moving media" type set ups, or the K1 floating media but I have heard good things about them, so if anyone has suggestions along those lines I'm all ears!

 

[jcardona1]

^ I stand corrected! That's pretty neat. I never thought you could fit a container big enough under a stand that would give you the slow flow needed in a settling chamber. Did you have any issues with water moving through the tank too quickly or stuff not settling properly? I guess you'd have to limit your flow rates and not run 20-30x either. That would require a much bigger tank.

As far as the moving media beds. I'm still like 'meh' on them for an average tank. I think they definitely have their place in setups with VERY messy large fish where you want to avoid any crud buildup (koi ponds and basically any other fish that poop human-sized turds!). But on your typical tank with large cichlids, it's mostly for bling factor. I say get whatever media you can find locally at a price you're happy with and make sure you keep it clean.

 

[David R]

You're right about the flow rate, and that is what I need to try figure out for the new set up. Obviously the slower the flow (and the larger the tank) the more muck is going to settle out, so I guess it depends on how much stuff you want to catch before the filter socks that determines how effective you consider it to be.

I found it worked very well with the "sawdust" produced by the royal, the settling chamber was made out of a 30g tank, 3'x14x14" IIRC, and it was running a Laguna 7500 pump. Once I got rid of the royal it was less effective on catching the muck, but there was also a lot less muck (I'm sure anyone who has kept a large-ish panaque knows how messy they are!). That is my main motivation for having one on the new set up, the Panaques. Anything I can catch before the socks will increase the intervals between cleaning them out. With the new set up I may look at putting a bulk-head in the bottom of the settling chamber so I can simply stir it all up and open a tap to drain out most of the waste, rather than trying to siphon it out.

 

[HULON]

I don't think they are flawed...they're just not meant for every type of setup. They do a great job of catching all the crap within its given micron rating - if you change them out in time and don't let them overflow. But on a giant tank with lots of flow, I probably wouldn't use them either. Koi ponds for example. Using filter socks would be a disaster unless you're changing them out every 20min lol. Just use them in applications where it makes sense. They did the trick on my 400g though.

So socks are flawed but the "holy" bead filter isn't?

LMFAO. Get some big rays and feed them.

I don't care what "reefers" or other "fishkeepers" have/use. I only care about what the guys producing the rays run. guess what? There's a VERY common trend. They scrapped the fancy bead filters and went back to socks and a moving bed.

Not sure how you guys are setting up your sock filtration but if you think socks are "flawed" then your attempt to run them was just that.... Flawed.

I have no problem whatsoever with mine. Now I'm nowhere near 9K gph through my sump. I'm only a measly 6-7K gph, but still at that my socks will go a week, possibly 2. the trrick is not to rely on single micron rating socks. I use 200/100s and all is well.

Don't get me wrong, IF I had the money I might try fancy big bead filters but I would expect the same result as others using them. The stingray poo to glue the media together.

But then again, it would probably be a cold day in hell before I ever bought a crate motor either. I enjoy this hobby cause I enjoy building/designing my own stuff.... To me that's half the fun. When it doesn't work you redesign. I feel like theres lots of hobbyists here that go out and buy the nicest filtration they can afford, expect it to perform like magic, and when it doesn't it's because their system was just too "manly" and they need something even better (more $).

Yes Guys I say FLAWED!!!!!I am not saying i don't use them in fact my first picture of my Bio reactor has one in it !!!!I am also not saying a bead filter on it's own is the answer either Because it is not!!!!But i tell you one thing i plan to find the answer !!!!! Jose didn't you use to use a diatamatious filter in conjunction with your socks because the socks just did not polish enough?????And DB junkie there is an answer to this Riddle and i am going to find it I can promise you that Also how much have you spent on your filtration DB?????? I would be willing to bet if because you like to build your own either a chamber or sumps and tubs that the overall cost is simular!!

 

[jcardona1]

Jose didn't you use to use a diatamatious filter in conjunction with your socks because the socks just did not polish enough?????

I did for a while yes. But not out of necessity. Purely for aesthetic reasons. At the time I was obsessed with sparkly water. Too much to maintain though. And I was also using 200 micron socks which left much to be desired. After the diatom filter I switched to 100 micron, then 50. That was more than enough for my needs. Now I'm running 10 micron socks on my 190g which is all I'll ever need.

 

[HULON]

IMO the biggest problem with socks is when people rely on them solely for mechanical filtration in a heavily stocked set up. Yes it can work, but having some sort of pre-filter and using the socks to polish the water would be far more ideal, and is what I intend to have on my next sump. In the past I have spent far too much time worrying about bio capacity and nowhere near enough on mechanical filtration, and I intent to change that this time round.



My old settling chamber on my 210g tank.

I had a fairly 'oldschool' sump on that tank, a couple of sheets of sponge/wool sitting on top of the bioballs which were sitting on top of the submerged noodles (woefully inadequate mechanical, plenty of bio...) and I found when my old royal plec hit ~6" I was rinsing the wool every other day or it would clog and overflow. I took an old 30g tank, drilled a few holes in one end, added a couple of baffles and turned it into a pre-sump settling chamber. That one 6" royal would cover the base of the 30g in about 1/2" of 'sawdust' in a week, and my filter wool immediately began to last a week between changes. This is the very design I intend to incorperate into the design for my 450g sump, incorperating the improvements I've learned from doing it once, as a pre-filter before the socks to catch the crap from the 2-3 royals I intend to keep along with the other messy plecs.

Here is a very quick and rough MSPaint drawing of where I'm up to with my planning so far.

Not to any sort of scale, haven't finalised the dimensions either.
Basically the water flows out of the tank, into the settling chamber, then I'm thinking of some sort of coarse foam/matt as another pre-filter, and then into the socks. For the bio media I'm thinking of having some submerged (matrix or noodles) and if needed I have about 40L of bioballs that I could utilise in some sort of trickle tower as shown in green.

On the plus side is that the filtration will be plumbed thru the wall behind the tank into the garage so I will have at least the 8' length of the tank, plenty of width and unlimited height (not constrained by trying to have to fit it into a cabinet). The down side is that the top of the tank will only be about 1100mm high as I want the tank to be at the right height to view while sitting on a couch (and I don't want to need a ladder to work on it) so there isn't that much vertical fall to play with (although the head height for the return pump will be lower, which is a plus).

Looking forward to getting some feedback/suggestions/hate...

ps. I would get an Ultima in a heartbeat if they were available here, but despite how awesome they are I don't think the cost of shipping one half way around the world would justify it.

pps. I haven't really researched "moving media" type set ups, or the K1 floating media but I have heard good things about them, so if anyone has suggestions along those lines I'm all ears!

David that is quite an ambishes drawing very well put together ..I had tryed to work something simular but could never get it to function properly due to my high flow rates the settlement chamber would have to be 10 feet long to do any good!!!!!

 

[HULON]

I did for a while yes. But not out of necessity. Purely for aesthetic reasons. At the time I was obsessed with sparkly water. Too much to maintain though. And I was also using 200 micron socks which left much to be desired. After the diatom filter I switched to 100 micron, then 50. That was more than enough for my needs. Now I'm running 10 micron socks on my 190g which is all I'll ever need.

Well i can look ten feet through my tank and if someone is on the other side i can see the pores in there skin BUT i work on my tank minimum 4 hours a day And i am tellin ya i WILL FIND a better way you can bet on it!!!!!

 

[David R]

Yeah obviously the flow vs chamber size is the key issue, and i'm yet to figure out if it will work on my planned 450g tank, running around 4-5 times turn over. I think the shape of it also effects how well it settles, too skinny and the flow will be too fast, too short and it won't have enough time to settle, too wide and you end up with a huge area to try siphoin clean...

I'll try work out some numbers this weekend to see if I can get a better idea of if its workable on my big set up.

 

[jcardona1]

and if someone is on the other side i can see the pores in there skin

Ok now that's a whole separate problem all in itself haha!

But geezus man, 4hrs a day?? That's nuts. What all do you have to do on a daily basis? I seriously spend about 90 seconds on my tank a day, just to feed. I think I've gotten used to easy maintenance that it's made my lazy!