Curious, who here owns an Oscar of good size/age that does not show pit erosion?

[convict360]

Read post # 20, this isn't a vitamin/nutrient issue.

What is it then? I'll read after asking you this first.

*edit, nevermind.


Sent from my Nexus 5 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[Aquanero]

This is my whole post from the Cichlia thread from a couple years ago, for what it's worth.

"The issue as I think it pertains to “Black water” fish has to do with the physiological aspect of how this affects the fish. As an organism ages it changes, maladies that affect us now never bothered us as kids and it’s the same with humans and fish. Our physiological make up changes and along with this are ability to resist certain disease changes. This is why I feel a fish that has been fine for 3+ years is all of a sudden not. Cichlia are not magical unicorns they are not any different than any other carnivorous fish from the black water rivers of South America as far as this issue is concerned.

We keep water not fish as the old saying goes. Let me talk about wild caught fish kept in aquaria here not tank raised aquarium strains in a broader sense. As I stated in another thread fish evolve in an ecological niche. They have developed an immune system that copes with the parasites and diseases that occur within their natural range. The Ph in this range (Amazon Blackwater environs in this case) is pretty acidic however it varies from area to area. While some species and or sub species therein that come from an area with water parameters more conducive to the existence of Hexamita have evolved an immune system that can cope with it better than a species that comes from an area where Hexamita doesn't exist. Look at the diseases brought to the new world from Europe that wiped out entire populations as they had no natural immunity to it. These protozoan’s evolved like all other organisms on earth, to take advantage of curtain conditions that are conducive to their proliferation. The question then becomes what about this fish as opposed to the others that makes it (the fish) an environment that allows Hex to thrive? It is in the broader sense an environmental issue be it internal or external we may never know as it pertains to this particular fish. It maybe it's something as simple as this fish isn't producing stomach acid the same as it used to.

As far as one individual fish and diet is concerned I’m not sure. It is possible some part of its diet has caused the digestive tract to become more basic and a rise in Ph could be enough to create an environment perfect for the hex to take hold. Perhaps lowering the level of animal protean and increasing the amount of vegetable matter could be a start. I would also include raw garlic in the diet for now. We are now left to treat the condition but must address/discover the root cause. There is a good sticky in the Fresh Water Disease and Health Issues about the use of Probiotics in Aquaria and competitive exclusion. Worth a read.

This is an interesting subject. Good luck. This is just my opinion not regurgatated information from the internet."

 

[Oscared]

I have a 5yr old 12" female ...no HITH as if yet..had a spat with anchor worm a year ago that I quickly resolved (due to new addition).

 

[RD.]

What is it then? I'll read after asking you this first.

Aquanero's opinion on this subject (one which I mostly agree with), as well as mine, and another members were all within the link that I posted in post #20 in this discussion. I'm not going to repeat everything that I've posted on this subject when it is already there for anyone that wants to read it.

 

[MoNsTeR FiS]

It's not diet. It's not water quality. It's water chemistry that causes HITH. Fish from hard water regions, such as African cichlids and CA don't get HITH. Fish from Amazonian soft water such as Discus, Angel fish, Geophagus, and Oscar are highly susceptable to HITH. I kept Geophagus in the same tank with CA and Africans under the same conditions and only Geophagus came up with HITH. I gave up Discus keeping because they all came up with HITH despite weekly WC. There is imbalance of something too much or too little in tap water from that of natural soft water that is the real cause.

While the jury is still out on much of the information surrounding the causes of HITH (freshwater) & HLLE (marine) it is clear that there can be several triggers, and what one hobbyist may experience with their fish, may have nothing to do with what the next person experiences with their fish.

There is no single cause of HITH, the cause is stress, and in many cases that stress does appear to come from the water chemistry such as what viejafish mentioned. The parasite that has been directly associated with HITH and freshwater fish species, is Spironucleus vortens. Myself, Matt, and Tom explain our personal opinions/theories as to why certain SA species are more prone to this ailment in the following past discussion. With the search feature broken this wasn't easy to find.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?548799-HITH-lATERAL-LINE-DISEASE-IN-CICHLA



In the case of blackwater species I always believed that those species found in acidic blackwater environments do not always cope well with various parasites/pathogens found in non blackwater environments. (such as found in many hobbyists tap water)

There is much more than just pH involved, and even tannins, various other natural turpines and chemicals found in indigenous plant matter may not only keep the pH buffered quite low in these natural blackwater environments, but in some instances (such as Terminalia catappa aka Almond leaves) some of these various indigenous plant matter are also known to produce antimicrobial activity that suppresses both gram positive & gram negative bacteria. Take those species out of that "protective" environment, and introduce them to paramaters outside their ideal range, and a fish that comes under stress (of any form) is going to be open for invasion from any number of pathogens that it would not normally encounter in the wild.

Enter the world of HITH, and S. vortens .....

I had my oscars (dont know how old) for 2 weeks in a 75 gallon with a convict, Pterodoras granulosus, megalodoras irwini, Pimelodella gracilis, a 18" rtc, and a 10" rhino pleco for a quarantine tank. They got a 90% water change every two days and the nitrite got up to 6 (parts per million) and ammonia up to 8 (parts per million) and they never showed any signs of hith. They were 10" when this happened. I was only able to do a wc every 2 days because of homework. Now they are in a 300 tub. They have not shown any signs of hith since i have got them. I have been feeding them floating pellets for the whole time i have had them. I think hith is caused by temperature. Also, when my synodontis eupterus had hith at 80 degrees F and i moved it to 68 degrees farenhight the hith went away in two days. These are my personal experiences and opinion and hith could be caused by something other than temperature.

 

[Aquanero]

Oscred very clean ATO, nice!

 

[Oscared]

Oscred very clean ATO, nice!

Thanks --Very first cichlid I've ever kept. Got me addicted. Now shes my pride and joy =]