Death curl -- Pics? Signs?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
2 to 3 weeks cycling IMO is not long enough. Nitrites and ammoia must/should be Zero before u add fish.
I have always cycled for 6 weeks minimum, then tested before adding fish.
I'm convinced this why the ray reacted this way. plus...u have an Atlantic ray which produces loads more waste than most other FW rays. Unless u r certain of internal paracites, I would add any more meds. Doesn't sound like it's required any more.
 
Everyone I talked to locally that keeps these rays said 2-3 weeks was enough time to cycle before bringing her home, which is why I went that route. I checked my water parameters every day during that period and saw literally no change from beginning to end. Considering that I've had her for a few months now with regular water changes and no problems, it was very apparent that her recent issues didn't arise until I changed out the sand that I had started with and put in that black crap that irritated and stressed her. It's been downhill from there and only now is she starting to bounce back. She continued to eat 2 more whole jumbo shrimp today, shell-on. She likes to swim around with it in her mouth and work on it for 20 minutes or so, like a puzzle she has to figure out.

I have AmQuel, have been using it since the beginning as a water stabilizer. It doesn't seem to do anything, I test right before beginning a water change and then a couple hours later after it's done and AmQuel has been added, and it's generally the same results. Even when I had the original aragonite sand and it had been seeded and probiotics had been living for about 2 months, plus water changes 1-2 times per week, I still couldn't get the nitrites down, even with 3 filters on the tank and plenty of bio-media to grow on. So I don't really know what's going on. I will say that in the experience of those I talk to that have kept these rays for a couple years in both fresh and brackish water, including Dr. Piermarini in his e-mail, the general consensus is that they are pretty tough, hardy fish that can tolerate quite a bit, far more than the sensitive South American rays. So I'm guessing that's how she's been able to get through everything so well. I don't have to worry about rinsing the filters as much anymore because this living sand I bought doesn't cloud the water, float, or get sucked into the filter intakes, so there's nothing clogging them anymore. Since my 2 back filters are strictly bio now, what would you recommend I layer inside the canister filter? As previously mentioned, it currently has a straining spongy/wirey stuff on the bottom layer, then a layer of carbon, then a layer of ammo-chips, then a later of ceramic tubes. Is it OK the way it is? I've been looking at buying a bigger canister and then just transferring the media from this one into the new one so that it doesn't have to start over. I'm going to need a bigger one because I found a 210 gallon tank + stand + glass tops + light hood on Craigslist for $550, which I'm going to pick up on Thursday and start cycling so she can move.

As an afterthought, would it be possible that the probiotics aren't growing due to my water being extremely hard? Even with the addition of salt to the tank, it doesn't seem to soften it very much and the calcium deposits on my filters, the glass tops, etc.
 
That's a great deal on the tank! Get a good quality eheim, and ask the shop I you can steal as much mature bio media a possible, (say 15 litre of bio), this will kickstart the cycle in your tank.

Your existing canister question, keep the set up as it is. Carbon is good to remove the meda u used. Things seem to be settling in your tank, so leave it as it is. No point changing stuff- may have effect on ray....
 
lol seriosuely madison is like 1 hour from me.. 'n I'm temped to drive up there and slap the crap outta whoever told you it takes less then a month to cycle a tank properly.. But yes if you intend to upgrade the filter xfer your old media into the new one and fill in the gaps w/ new stuff. ATM though I'de keep up with your maitenece and let her stabalize and get to eating well again and beefing up. Even a hearty animal will succumb to disease and illness if emmaciated. As xfering her to a new tank will be stressful on her again. and if she's eating, healthy weight she's alot less likely to get sick again.
 
MonsterMinis;3533180; said:
lol seriosuely madison is like 1 hour from me.. 'n I'm temped to drive up there and slap the crap outta whoever told you it takes less then a month to cycle a tank properly...

Manager at Pet Supermarket on Odana -- sold me the tank, the ray, and keeps them himself. LOL! Where in WI are you?
 
PinkLady;3532921; said:
a layer of ammo-chips,As an afterthought, would it be possible that the probiotics aren't growing due to my water -

Even with the addition of salt to the tank, it doesn't seem to soften it very much and the calcium deposits on my filters, the glass tops, etc.


do you have salt in the tank full time?
if so get rid of the ammo chips as they are doing nothing but act as bio media. they will not remove ammonia in salt water!!!
 
It's not full salt, it's brackish. The directions on the container say to recharge the ammo-chips by soaking them in a heavy salt solution, so I was told that since the water is brackish, they would still remove ammonia, although not 100% as effectively, and be continuously recharged/activated by the salt in the water as well. They must be working because I didn't use them originally and after I started using them, I saw a drop of about 10ppm.
 
if you use amquel constantly you will always get ammonia readings as all it does is convert the ammonia to less harmfull ammonium, this is gradually converted like normal into nitrite then nitrate .
the ammochips contrary to what you have been told will not work in brackish water. having worked with koi for years i have seen plenty of people salt their ponds without removing the zeolite(which is what ammochips are) only to have it dump all the ammonia back into the pond with distasterous effects.

on a more helpfull note are you running a protien skimmer? as you are running the aquarium with salt it would work and this would remove lots of organic matter leaving the filters to do their job.
 
Sounds like you still have a lot going on to call this a fully cycled system. I don't like using chemicals and odd things like ammo chips. They just jack with chemistry and create artificial cycling indicators for you. Basic mechanical filter and a lot of biological will do the trick. Lots of live rock, fluidized sand bed and/or a large bio tower work wonders. Adding AmQuel isn't helping the situation. It's holding up your cycling abilities for you. Probably why you aren't seeing the changes in the chemistry to suggest it's cycled correctly for you.

I'm also gonna say that in my own experience with Atlantics vs freshwater Amazon rays... the FW rays are a lot tougher for the most part. (Some exceptions would be the young black ray pups.)

Hopefully this all works out in the end for ya.
 
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