Deathcurl in Second Ray!
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Miles;2444311; said:You should read up on ammonia toxicity and pH and why drip acclimation is detrimental...
Comparing humans and rays? Would that be like comparing wild amazon silt substrate with captive crushed glass substrate? Rays in the wild can 'leave' if they don't like the substrate, not so much in the glass jail cell.
Comparing cichlids and rays? Would that be like humans and rays or ...
"Also,"
I still think it's the sand.
I think larger rays can live on this sand, no problem. I think juvenile rays, specifically reticulata, are irritated by it...
(ps. 3 of my retics are from TFD and they were way worse than these. LFS had them on crushed coral with an UGF. They sure did heal quickly on the barebottom with driftwood hiding spots)
Silica doesnt kill malawi cichlids or geophagus. And these guys use their GILLS to filter the sand. If it was harmfull, we would have spotted it by now. And rays are made for a life on the bottom. Why would they be harmed when neither malawis or geophagus take any damage? And can you come with a real answer to that question? Can you show some facts? Or is i just one more of your crazy theories? No solid evidence? Like always?
ALSO, silica sand and glass is NOT the same thing.
Glass can be made from pure silica, but you have to heat it to 4200 F to change its molecular structure. ITS NOT CHRUSHED GLASS.
Also, the shape of the silica grains have the same shape as normal sand grains. It isnt sharp at all. Silica grains can be much finer though. Like the small particles that colours the amazon river.
Oh, And i just look at what you said about ammonia toxicity and pH and drip acclimation in the old thread. And i can see that you have absolutly no idea what you are talking about.
You said the following:
"Ammonia toxicity in rays has alot to do with when they are shipped. The respire in the bag, increasing cO2, thus lowering the pH. They then produce ammonia through osmosis, which is acid, thus lowering the pH. You open the bag and drip acclimate to a higher pH (as many uninformed importers do) and it creates the 'ammonia burn' that is so often mentioned"
You are calling ammonia acid. ITS A BASE! You will RAISE the pH if you add ammonia to water. And i can see that you dont know what osmosis really is.
Its not the drip that raises the pH (well yes a bit mabye). You raise the pH just by opening the bag. Most of the O2 in the water have been used and turned into CO2. And yes, this will lower the pH alot. But as soon as you open the bag, the CO2 will begin to be replaced by O2. THIS raises the pH.
And i would like you to explain to me how the osmosis with the ammonia works. I think it could be fun.
Just how are you gonna save this one?
Oh, and yes. I got owned by the other collage student in that thread. Cos i dident know anything about super acids.
You said the following:
"Ammonia toxicity in rays has alot to do with when they are shipped. The respire in the bag, increasing cO2, thus lowering the pH. They then produce ammonia through osmosis, which is acid, thus lowering the pH. You open the bag and drip acclimate to a higher pH (as many uninformed importers do) and it creates the 'ammonia burn' that is so often mentioned"
You are calling ammonia acid. ITS A BASE! You will RAISE the pH if you add ammonia to water. And i can see that you dont know what osmosis really is.
Its not the drip that raises the pH (well yes a bit mabye). You raise the pH just by opening the bag. Most of the O2 in the water have been used and turned into CO2. And yes, this will lower the pH alot. But as soon as you open the bag, the CO2 will begin to be replaced by O2. THIS raises the pH.
And i would like you to explain to me how the osmosis with the ammonia works. I think it could be fun.
Just how are you gonna save this one?
Oh, and yes. I got owned by the other collage student in that thread. Cos i dident know anything about super acids.
And now for the "KILLER-SAND".
These are the pics from the thread:
1. silica/sandblastingsand
2. Danish beach sand
3. river sand from a danish store.
And here is the danish thread: http://cichlids.akvariefisk.dk/forum/thread/?ID=267301&SearchString=sand#SiteEnd
Sandblæsersand = sandblastingsand
Strand sand = beach sand
Akvariesand = aquarium sand
ALOT of the normal sand you find in stores or on the beach (or just about any sand), is made up by silica. Not hard to see from these pics. But im sure you alredy knew this.............................
These are the pics from the thread:
1. silica/sandblastingsand
2. Danish beach sand
3. river sand from a danish store.
And here is the danish thread: http://cichlids.akvariefisk.dk/forum/thread/?ID=267301&SearchString=sand#SiteEnd
Sandblæsersand = sandblastingsand
Strand sand = beach sand
Akvariesand = aquarium sand
ALOT of the normal sand you find in stores or on the beach (or just about any sand), is made up by silica. Not hard to see from these pics. But im sure you alredy knew this.............................
Miles;2444311; said:You should read up on ammonia toxicity and pH and why drip acclimation is detrimental...
I still think it's the sand.
I think larger rays can live on this sand, no problem. I think juvenile rays, specifically reticulata, are irritated by it...
(ps. 3 of my retics are from TFD and they were way worse than these. LFS had them on crushed coral with an UGF. They sure did heal quickly on the barebottom with driftwood hiding spots
This is an update just for you, Miles. Ashley and I removed all of the sand last night (first with a bowl, then with a spoon and finally syphoned over 30 gallons to get the last few bits) and, except for some smooth river stones and little bits of sand the filter has kicked out, the tank is sand-free. Will post pics when I get home.
FishDog;2444373; said:
Funny that you should mention that! We are going to be doing 1/6th medium smooth river rock, 1/6th small smooth river rock, and 2/3rds bare bottom. We will also probably toss in a piece of driftwood to give them a place to hide.
csx4236;2441057; said:
Thank you for the save, Mike! Well, hopefully the save. The rays are resting their discs back on the glass, for the most part. If they received a lethal dose of fluketabs, would it be expected that they would have died by now? I know that some things, like kidney failure, can take up to two weeks to kill a ray.
abortedsoul;2445470; said:Funny that you should mention that! We are going to be doing 1/6th medium smooth river rock, 1/6th small smooth river rock, and 2/3rds bare bottom. We will also probably toss in a piece of driftwood to give them a place to hide.
I used Estes black and white rock because it is smaller and has a smooth coating. Can't wait to see the pics.
FishDog;2445501; said:
Estes black and white rock... is that something you can pick up at a home depot or something you can order online or is it available somewhere else?
I'll make sure Ashley gets some pics posted when I get home.
By the way! Our new 360g acrylic should be arriving this weekend (or maybe early next week)! Today is when it is supposed to ship! I've already got a plan to get it cycled in no time.
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