"Designer" Cichlids

[buddha1200]

everyone has his or her favorite vendor for what ever reason,and if they choose to tell people who that is that is their right to do so.All that means is they got what they wanted from that vendor and are happy with the quality and service,if one vendor happens to shine or stand out than good on that vendor for providing what people look for time and time again. that is the bottom line(just my 2 cents)

 

[caribemob]

Exactly Ed Plus the average person can't get an order from conkels directly anymore from what I thought. Only ** can get you his fish unless your a business like Animal Jungle who's a huge player and not just a hobbyist. Everyone doesn't have a 500 dollar minimum hobbyist order to place, so you have to get it from these sources whom which are incredible Vendors with the proper size fish and packaged to perfection. So why not say there name in a fish thread pertaining to the fish they sold

 

[baldtaxguy]

I don't have a favorite vendor. I have favorite species and I acquire them regardless of vendor. Again, I can see the labeling of a vendor to a fish helping future buyers down the road to make an informed decision. For me, this is the sole benefit. But if someone is dependent upon the vendor name for other motivations beyond simple information, such as status, designer label, bragging rights, etc., big deal. Who cares as to why people acquire and hold certain species or certain fish? Who cares if it inconsistent with your own motivations? The vendor or middleman cheerleaders throughout this board have their reasons to be known as such. If its to create brand, who cares? At the end of the day, its the fish that matters.

 

[Nemesis]

I don't have a favorite vendor. I have favorite species and I acquire them regardless of vendor. Again, I can see the labeling of a vendor to a fish helping future buyers down the road to make an informed decision. For me, this is the sole benefit. But if someone is dependent upon the vendor name for other motivations beyond simple information, such as status, designer label, bragging rights, etc., big deal. Who cares as to why people acquire and hold certain species or certain fish? Who cares if it inconsistent with your own motivations? The vendor or middleman cheerleaders throughout this board have their reasons to be known as such. If its to create brand, who cares? At the end of the day, its the fish that matters.

Very nice post. I don't really see why anybody should care.... or at least make a big deal about it. If it doesn't hurt or benefit you in any way, why does it matter so much what others do?

 

[dogofwar]

My point isn't that wild fish should only go to people who will breed them...my point is that it's important to know the provenance (who caught them and where and who's hands they've passed through) as a way of maintaining proper identification of fish...whether they'll ultimately be bred or not. Same is true of F1 or F2 fish.

I'm a lot more confident of the identity of an F2 fish whose grandparents were actually caught by some that I know (with pics!)... and who's parents are from the fishroom of someone I know got them from the guy who caught them than I am a "wild" fish with a collection location that's not verifiable...from a country that doesn't allow exports...and with no pictures of the actual collection site / collection.

Maintaining the integrity of wild-type location-specific strains of fish requires that the integrity of the lines of fish be known and verified, as much as possible.

That's what's troubling about backward identification of variants..."wild" fish from LFS, etc.

Matt

I agree. I feel the only reason I should buy a wild fish is if I have intentions on breeding them. But does that mean that anyone who does otherwise is wrong, and has no business keeping wild fish? If I see someone with a single F0 Lyonsi, and they have no intentions of breeding it, only keeping it as a show fish, it might bother me a bit, but it doesn't mean they are not entitled to do that.

And it's rather annoying to see threads with complaints and critique on things that bother you all the time. I guess I should go make a thread about that huh?

 

[dogofwar]

Are research and conservation the same thing as commercial export / farming?

Matt

Knowing who was responsible for shipping and handling the fish is important! I think that this is the point of the thread: forget bragging rights- when you receive prompt customer service, good prices and healthy fish it's nice to let others know who's providing it so that they can get the same. And shouldn't we be so lucky as to know who our supplier's, supplier is. Better to know they came from **- who is published, operates facilities in Central and South America, is contracted to collect legally for research and conservation in places where others can't, and has been doing this for decades- than some yuck-a-puck in the land of non-disclosure who imports festae from Hong Kong.

 

[flowerpower]

No, it obviously isn't. I can only speculate on how these two seemingly conflicted interests balance out.

 

[Nemesis]

Video and/or photo documentation for every fish that is wild caught is just never going to happen. Just as in the case of Jeff's Wild Umbies. Here was his response when asked where they were collected

Thanks for your inquiry tornfins.
I was never privy to the specific river from which they were collected.
I asked several times, but this question was not answered-directly. For that reason, I never could pin a specific collection point on them. Had I known, I would have gladly provided that info.

I believe I mentioned in the thread when announcing the arrival of wild umbies that I've been trying to have fisherman specifically collect this species for a long, long time.
Most of us that have been seriously interested in these fish over the years are aware that baby umbies have arrived as 'contaminants' in boxes of wild red hump Geos (Geophagus steindachneri). The Geos are collected commercially in and around the Rio Magdalena.
One would assume that where there's babies, there will be adults in the same river(s). It never worked that way in terms of collection though.

As I asked again and again of my shippers to urge fisherman to collect wild umbies, I was told basically the same thing in the end. The fisherman know the fish. They can be found in rivers in western Colombia, but those areas were (and still are) occupied, more or less, by guerilla troops. Bottom line - the fisherman were not interested in risking their lives to collect fish for some gringo customer up north.

I can add a last piece of commentary on this subject if you're still interested. It may very well have been in the best interest of the shipper to purposely not share me with the name of the river the fish were collected from. Think about it.
One-he knew that I deal with other Colombian exporters. What's to prevent another exporter from sending fisherman to a known location on a river?
Two, and in response to the above question, armed guerillas are what's to stop fisherman from trespassing on guarded land.
Furthermore, if the exporter made some arrangements to allow fisherman to access these areas, then one can expect this endeavor to be of personal interest both politically as well as for business opportunity.
Comprende?

Does that mean that they aren't wild, or questionable to be wild? Or could the line in red be the reason why some collectors/distibutors are reluctant to give the details you require? At the end of the day, it's a business for these people. I'm sure they would rather leave the documentaries to the hobbyist. Plus, I doubt that the guys who are actually doing the collecting will be carrying around camera's .

If the people who purchased the Umbies aren't worried, then why should anyone else be?

 

[dogofwar]

Seems like jeff's being pretty transparent. He could just make up a name

for a variety of reasons it's a good thing to have documentation of the collection locations for fish: to understand the biotype, other fish found there, to see the fish in wild fresh coloration, etc. Check out aqvaterra.com. Pics of locales for every fish just about.

is it necessary? Of course not. But it certainly adds credence, especially for
places where others aren't collecting and for places that are supposed to be off limits

Matt

 

[Nemesis]

There's a difference between hosting collecting trips and collecting fish for profit. I commend anyone who does document their collection, but it is a rare thing when were talking about collecting and exporting for profit. The truth of the matter is, these documetaries are going to come from hobbyist who are passionate about the fish they own, and wish to share their findings with others, not collectors, distributors, vendors or sellers.