"Designer" Cichlids

[UTEP]

Personally, I only get cichlids from Rapps and that is my choice. My brother gets his cichlids from Pet Smart and LFS's -does that make his fish less interesting than mine?
In the end its personal preference. Id rather fork out $200 and my bro would rather pay $20-lol.

 

[cchhcc]

If you trust your source than why question them. On the other hand if you don't like what they do or trust a certain vendor or source just don't buy from them,it's as simple as that(business is business)when you go buy a car do you ask the dealer if the screws used to put the car together where made in china or if the glass was made at a certain temperture(NOOOOO)you go on the reputation of the car company. When you buy sneakers do you ask if the strings are 100% cotton(NOOOO).You buy them by the BRAND there is nothing in this world not sold by brand. ALL GLASS,OCEANIC,FLUVAL etc all brands. we may not want to believe it but the world runs on brands,The fish we buy may not be a "brand"but we do buy from who we feel is reliable and trustworthy ,therefore the vendor's we deal with are brands plain and simple(fish farm,tuic,wish list etc are all brands)they advertise like any other company and build their reputation like any other company. Thats the bottom line we all live or lives by brands(hell the computer you are arguing this point on is a brand,unless you have a no name computer)All these high and mighty so called no it alls need to get over themselves,no company ,business,brand etc is going to tell you evry thing you want to know,they may answer a few question. But in the end it's business plain and simple.

Lots of truth in there, but you're forgetting what all BRAND MANAGERS know: a dissatisfied customer tells lots of people about their bad experience, many more people than a satisfied customer tells.

So it isn't really realistic to expect someone who's been jipped to keep quiet about it and "just stop buying from them"......and you shouldn't want him to either! Criticism HELPS get better fish for all of us. That's why I can't understand why any expression of dissatisfaction seems to be met with such an aggressive defense from BUYERS on this site. I can understand sellers being upset, but that's their problem. Do a better job if you don't want to be criticized!

 

[dogofwar]

...probably because these buyers are heavily invested - literally and figuratively - in the **/** brand... And questioning the legitimacy of the sellers list is questioning the legitimacy of fish they've bought from them...

Matt

 

[flowerpower]

Lots of truth in there, but you're forgetting what all BRAND MANAGERS know: a dissatisfied customer tells lots of people about their bad experience, many more people than a satisfied customer tells.

So it isn't really realistic to expect someone who's been jipped to keep quiet about it and "just stop buying from them"......and you shouldn't want him to either! Criticism HELPS get better fish for all of us. That's why I can't understand why any expression of dissatisfaction seems to be met with such an aggressive defense from BUYERS on this site. I can understand sellers being upset, but that's their problem. Do a better job if you don't want to be criticized!

This is what I don't get: none of the critics are customers in this case. Am I wrong? Aside from that 'minor' point, everything you say is true.

 

[FIN01]

Hoping the thread isn't too far gone already ...

I wonder if it might be a generational thing. If I go and buy a couple fish from the LFS and post the pics (after finally borrowing a camera), I would not state were I got them from. If asked, I would answer and know where the LFS got them from becuase I ask before I buy. But posting they are **, or ** stock without it being asked is bragging to me. I wouldn't hide who they were from if asked, but I wouldn't post it unless asked either. Manners.

But to youngsters today, bragging and boasting is the in, cool thing to do. I notice most of the posters that say they wouldn't list what distrubutor they got the fish from are mostly older folks, while those that add '**' or 'rapps' in the titles tend to be our younger members.

Just a thought.

These were essentially my thoughts exactly. In most cases when purchasing fish, I am not willing to pay something close to 10 times the price after shipping for an ordered fish than purchasing one from an LFS. Is an ordered fish really 10 times better? Don't want to derail, but for me typically not. I am part of the younger generation, but I would exclude myself from the bragging type, though I feel it is a good generalization.

 

[cchhcc]

This is what I don't get: none of the critics are customers in this case. Am I wrong? Aside from that 'minor' point, everything you say is true.

Customers of who? What case? I'm a customer and buy fish from several vendors here. I'm also a critic.

 

[JK47]

The real questions: is there value add in mentioning where the fish came from, yes there is. I firmly believe in supporting local/small business from an economy standpoint. Provide a good service, get word of mouth advertisment. That is the backbone of most small businesses in this country. If Rapps was kind enough to track down some rare SA cichlids for me no one else on MFK could give a rats ass about but me, why would I not return the favor by helping him advertise where I got it if I was pleased? (it's not like your going to see a super bowl commecial from these vendors any time soon, they can use the word of mouth as any business can) I would do the same for ** or ** or ** or whoever... I am not posting my fish to brag I got them from Jeff or whoever, I am bragging about fish that are my passion. I buy most of my fish from the LFS (also an MFK vendor) and do the same for them as well. F0, F1, F2 etc... is not relevent to me from a "popular" perspective, it's relevant because I would rather give more info than less because I have it, if you have the details, why not share? Why would I want to wait for someone to ask for vendor or collection point if I already know, for post count or something??? I did not know that was considered rude and will hold back in the future.

IMO giving as much information as you have is what makes a discussion based forum what it is. That last thing this forum needs is another reason NOT to post experience, pics and as much info as possible about your passion for your fish, only to be replaced by "WHATS YOUR FAVORITE", "DSLR etc.." and "JDM" threads as a subject line with real no value add to the community...

 

[cchhcc]

[
Yeah, I saw that quote and have seen it before. That's not news to me or and many others who've been around the cichlid block for a few decades. There are several other hybrids described in that book that he doesn't mention in that explanation. Sp. Green a few years later too. And don't forget the hybrids on his current lists, now fully divulged.

The date is interesting to me. My book shows a copyright of 1993.

Additionally, even though his icthyological skills are utilized when convenient, he states the truth in admitting he's not an ichthyologist. An icthyologist would know that appearance often determines very little in the identification of many species, most especially in the identification of a "new" species. I wonder if his first spawn of citrinellus were thrown away as hybrids because the juvies didn't all look the same?

Seems he's still smarting about that Konings comment even so many years later. So much so that there's still an "anti-Konings agenda" being carried out to this very day, . Incidentally, were you aware that Paul breeds fish for later sale as DCT products? Sp. Kansas City perhaps?

No matter. Conkel's explanation could very well be the truth. But given that he's blatantly mislead me (kind choice of words) in the past I remain suspicious. It wouldn't be a stretch to think that after selling a "new" species for a few years he had to bite the bullet and admit the truth. An innocent sounding story would be a nice explanation in that case. Unfortunately, the hybrid realizations always seem to come AFTER the fish has been offered for sale for a while.

Except for the case with margaritiferum -- also identified in that book(ichthyologically skilled enought to identifiy that species though?). ALL those fish were lost in a freeze never to be had again. I'm pretty sure if I collected an thought to be extinct species I'd keep a few out of the pond and in an indoor tank for the winter.....but maybe I'm just too cautious.

You relatively new guys are at a disadvantage. Stories can be tailored over the years into quite convincing yarns. Make up a lie for me to tell. I'll be able to explain it away to the satisfaction of most very easily.


NOW, let me point out what you are doing in continuing to drag ** into the picture. While I sense it is your desire, and that of three others, to aggressively defend him at all times (motivation still unclear) what you've really done is promoted more negative talk about **. THIS THREAD ISN'T ABOUT ANY SINGLE VENDOR. Ask questions about other vendors, and I'm sure you'll get a variety of answers (some from me!). Continue to focus on what you perceive to be an "anti-**" movement and your cause is just going to face more harm......and the self-fulfilling prophecy is complete!

Feel free to INVITE a discussion of the relative merits of any other vendor you may be interested in. Constantly focussing in a negative way on one particular vendor isn't really fair to him as it fails to provide any insight into the positives of his operation.

 

[cchhcc]

Thanks for the most recent link Flower. Having seen it before it's of no revelation, but it may show others how easy (or difficult) it is to get the odd hybrid in Don's operation.

Regarding the species "meltingpot" I question the ability to identify a hybrid Paratheraps at anything but a half grown and larger age. Even then, the greatest experts in the industry struggle to ID many species. So it remains possible that hybrids are sold at a young age, not intentionally for sure, only to be discovered later by the buyer. To my knowledge, the individual who coined that "sp. meltingpot" phrase worked in the wholesale industry in Florida. Check out ____________ (unnamed competing forum) for background info.

 

[flowerpower]

Chris, I've dragged ** into the picture no more than I've dragged Rapps or anyone/thing else pertaining to the topic being discussed- in this case brand name vendors.