"Designer" Cichlids

[cchhcc]

This is what I don't get: none of the critics are customers in this case. Am I wrong? Aside from that 'minor' point, everything you say is true.

Customers of both (and more).... Want to rephrase that first quote? Which vendor isn't getting the business of the critics? Why do you single out one vendor as being criticized? That's certainly not the case or the purpose of the thread.

Chris, I've dragged ** into the picture no more than I've dragged Rapps or anyone/thing else pertaining to the topic being discussed- in this case brand name vendors.

I must have missed those walls of text you posted from vendors other than **. I still don't see the relevance of posting that ** info here. It doesn't address the original topic. What's your purpose in bringing that up anyway?

 

[flowerpower]

Makes for a good read.

 

[cchhcc]

Most of the best reads got deleted and closed down! Hahahahaha!

 

[flowerpower]

Yeah, no fun in playing the fence in one of your threads.

 

[ikevi]

I mean do we actually think that Rapps or ** go into South America and fish these fish out-come on-they do the best they can.

Well knowin**... a lot of his fish are caught by him. (And the rest are all directly from credible sources like **, etc. And his F1's/F2's are from his own pairs or pairs that he sold to people and he buys back the fry.)

Now onto the main topic... And yes I realize there have been some great comments already, but here are my thoughts.

I have to say I for one usually mention where I get my fish, not in the title but I still do. If I am going to say I have a wild pair and am selling f1 fry there is no doubt that if I say my pair originated from **,**,** that people on this forum know I have done the best I can to guarantee I have a wild pair without collecting them myself.

That said while I used to tend towards buying domestic fish, there are often very good reasons to buy wilds. One quick example is wild discus and how nearly impossible it is to find any domestic discus that truly look wild.

In addition I have a pair of wild pearsei that have a much more green hue not seen in tank raised. Does this make a wild tagged with a seller name better?

No, but as said time and time before it does give you that a way to track the fishes origin as best as possible. Which is important when trying to stay true to a location... Heck how many times have fish been split into different species even when they live ~1 mile away from each other... (And yes a sellers name isn't going to tell you the location of a fish, but it at least gives more info then a fish bought in an auction with just the word wild on the bag.) (Though even then the seller usually will tell you the location if you ask.)

Maybe I am just too used to forgetting the location of the fish and having to go back and ask the seller the location. (In GA we have quite a few people that go out and collect their own fish.) So all in all, I am just trying to say that putting a sellers name next to the fish is just an easy way of conveying just a little bit more information.

And yes I would say that your example of creamsickle is a nice fish for a tank raise... And now I post this vid.

http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/ikevi/?action=view&current=MVI_0640.flv (The intentions of this vid was to show I kept the fry for some people.)

Now just looking one would say yes the midas are nice fish, but compared to the creamsickle aren't that special. But if I tell you they are f1/f2 from **. People switch their expectation to something that is more true to the wild and likely rate these fish better then initial impressions. (In other words if you are expecting a wild fish the creamsickle looks like fish bait)

And I have to say, a tank/farm raised creamsickle in my mind is much more of a "Designer" cichlid then any f1/f2 type fish sold out there. IE for those that want fish as close to wild as possible colormorphs = fish that fish farms intentionally raised to look different so that they could get more money for in essence selling the same fish. (Or the true "Designer" cichlid.)


Ok this has gotten way too long. (And I should say I have a ton of non-wild fish, I am just trying to explain why when I post fish I almost always mention where I got them from.)

 

[cchhcc]

Great post ikevi! Loved the video -- super pairs!

 

[buddha1200]

Just read back through this whole thread,just to make sure of the info that is trying to be brought out,and i must say after reading it again i see that there is not any real info in this thread at all. The thread is about fish being a brand(i may be wrong)but it seems to just be a way for several people on this forum to witch hunt(and re word things to make it seem other wise)Chris in my opinion you only start these threads after some one post a fish that came from don,any other time these threads don't show up(happened to many times to be a coincidence)i believe that is why others get defensive. Even though my post in this thread stayed on topic i was still labeled as being defensive(i would think that was classless as you say)nemesis was labeled as defensive also and he never was. I am not trying to offend no one and if i have my apologys(but take alook at your on tatics brfore you ask people to take a look at thiers. btw as far as heavly invested,i have bought alot of fish from jeff and ** also, so get your story straight before slinging accusations. that is all i will sure be glad when this forum gets back to being informative and entertaining. Oh and no worries i will not post on any of your threads again if thats what you wish.

 

[dogofwar]

What some people view as reasonable questions, others view as a witch hunt. What some view as evasive, incomplete or speculative responses to simple questions, others view as conclusive.

The simplest way to silence detractors and build a strong brand is to provide solid answers.

The quickest way to harm the brand and to turn off prospective customers is to treat simple questions as an attack and to retreat into evasiveness and defensiveness

Matt

 

[dogofwar]

For folks that don't care about getting answers to questions about collection locations, when and how alleged sources of wild fish were collected, legality of collecting/exporting endangered and threatened species from places with tight rules, etc.... WHY NOT?

Do you truly not care about these things?
Is it easier to just assume that everything is on the up and up?
These things are inconsequential or have no value to you as a buyer and fishkeeper?

Matt

 

[buddha1200]

i agree,but on the other hand if you never have an intent to become a customer and just want to start alot of nonsense because you feel as though everyone needs to answer your question(because you feel you know everything)than it is useless to answer you. Every question that was asked has been answered one way or another,but the same questions still keep getting asked over and over. Why? These threads don't solve anything and they all end up going back to the same ole thing over and over again. Aren't we all tired of this by now. We are all in this for the love of the fish(at least i am)i have been keeping fish on and off for ten years now and just in the last couple of years decided to get alittle deeper into it,but you guys act like if you only joined a forum recently you are a newb, I for one enjoy evryones fish when posted and have never dissed anyones fish or tried to make them feel inferior because they got the fish from the lfs or auction ,certain vendors etc.If you feel as though you need to know where every fish came from(includeing the ones you haven't purchased or never will)then i think you should only catch your own,then you know the answers to your question. On the other hand i will keep purchasing fish from those i trust because in the long run i get a beautiful fish that i have enjoyed over the years with out having to get my feet wet.(except the ocassional splashing during feeding) Please everyone look past the nonsense and get back to enjoying fish keeping. Have a beautiful day everyone.