DNA Identification & Vendors

[caribemob]

Where did anyone say vendors were selling them?

thats the question I want to know

 

[Modest_Man]

No, you're asking what vendors are selling/sold them.

I'm saying no one in this thread said they were being sold.

The only confirmed ones I've heard about came about back in the trips that Mo and company took a few years back, and Juan Artigas helped identify the pure among the hybridized.

 

[caribemob]

No, you're asking what vendors are selling/sold them.

I'm saying no one in this thread said they were being sold.

The only confirmed ones I've heard about came about back in the trips that Mo and company took a few years back, and Juan Artigas helped identify the pure among the hybridized.

So what is the Vendor Part, have to do with the Thread Modest Man, Obviously the thread title had to mean something, people can't stop these subliminal threads

 

[dogofwar]

I think the question comes down to:
If someone is collecting and selling wild labridens, how are they differentiating between the pure ones and the hybridized ones?

Especially when small, it's really hard to differentiate.

Wessel talked about watching the behavior of the fish that he collected for his breeding stock... is this how others do it?

Matt

 

[darth pike]

I'd buy the behavioral arguement. After all, it's breeding behavior that was used to seperate Satanoperca leucosticta from Satanoperca jurupari ...

And remember, not hybridizing in nature is one of the key elements in determining if a new cichlid found is a new species or merely a color form of an existing species and has been used many times to seperate fish (heckel/green disucs, firemouths/passiones, hrp/convicts). Color is pretty much nonexistant when determining speciation on the scientific level, though useful to us visually of course.

 

[Aquamojo]

Mo, would it be possible to post a pic?

I'll try and locate photo I have when I had it in a tank. Right now it's in a vat at my farm with other outcasts and spares.

The other way you can determine if the fish are hybridized are when they breed. Breeding coloration differs from the real deal.

 

[flowerpower]

Looking forward to it, thanks.

 

[Modest_Man]

I was searching for something else and came across this, a response from Don Conkel about the hybrid labridens. This is a response from Don himself.

A few new fanatics will certainly jump aboard the "anti Conkel agenda" through the various internet forums because of this, but it comes with the territory. I have been accused of hybridization for a few years after Ad Konings stated so in a St. Petersburg Times newspaper article. In fact he labeled me a "shameless self promoter" in regards to propagating and selling populations of cichlids from the Principle Canal de Ebano, the Rio Lamas and the Rio Chomba. I put these populations in my first book. Ad never conferred with me about them. These are cichlids that I collected in northern Mexico in the late 80's and early 90's. Their existence in nature is the consequence of the Rio Verde system being connected to the Rio Panuco system through a massive series of agricultural canals in the late 50's and early 60's by the Mexican government. They are basically hybrids of labridens populations with carpintis populations. I did not know so when I originally collected them as I am not an ichthyologist. Nor, did I know so when bred them or when I sold their first spawns. I bred them in outdoor Florida ponds in the spring and summer of 1992, and after a few months of growing out their young, discovered they were indeed not true species. They didn't all look alike. I didn't have to be an ichthyologist to determine that. I discontinued selling them and breeding them out of principle. The same thing has been going on with the Media Luna populations of yellow labridens for some year now. Their genetics are irreversibly altered and contaminated with carpintis. Only a few uncontaminated populations of them exist on a few cattle farms in their excavated "watering" ponds. However, even they are severely stressed, by unmonitored herbicide and pesticide runoff, not to mention the years of accumulated fecal material.

 

[Aquamojo]

Looking forward to it, thanks.

No guarantees. Will do my best.

 

[cchhcc]

So what is the Vendor Part, have to do with the Thread Modest Man, Obviously the thread title had to mean something, people can't stop these subliminal threads

Post #4 smartass. Stop with the incessant dramatics, and let the rest of us have a reasonable conversation without your nonsense. You can complain to a Mod or simply ignore any thread that upsets you.