Do fish become sad when in small tanks?
- Thread starter breadhead
- Start date
I doubt it. thats a human trait that people like to impose on non humans esp the fish police.
on reddit i have had people claim that charlie was clinically depressed and hates his life.
I wish I was joking.
on reddit i have had people claim that charlie was clinically depressed and hates his life.
I wish I was joking.
I imagine if anything, if you want to compare it to human emotions, it'd be like someone living in a drought, like "damn this sucks, I hope some rain comes soon", but not clinically depressed. Either they can't comprehend that they're permanently stuck in a tiny space, or domestication has gotten them used to tiny things, since in the little "farms" they're bred on, most of their life I spent in half- to one gallon spaces, tupperwares, or bottles.
This is a question you simply can't ask on a fish forum because we'll all defend our hobby to the hilt. So the answers you'll get here are likely to be somewhere between "categorically no" and, well, "categorically no".
Go to a PETA forum, or even the type of forum
12 Volt Man
alluded to, and ask the same question and the answers will, undoubtedly be somewhere between, "absolutely" and, well, "absolutely".
Until the day comes where an aquarium fish can actually communicate with us and state one way or the other whether they're happy, or sad in their tank, then we will never ever know.
Some might say, well they look happy, they eat well, they're active, they're breeding, whatever. Do those things really mean the fish is happy, or sad, that's if fish are even able to experience those complex feelings.
Go to a PETA forum, or even the type of forum
12 Volt Man
alluded to, and ask the same question and the answers will, undoubtedly be somewhere between, "absolutely" and, well, "absolutely".Until the day comes where an aquarium fish can actually communicate with us and state one way or the other whether they're happy, or sad in their tank, then we will never ever know.
Some might say, well they look happy, they eat well, they're active, they're breeding, whatever. Do those things really mean the fish is happy, or sad, that's if fish are even able to experience those complex feelings.
Doctor Dolittle will know the answerThis is a question you simply can't ask on a fish forum because we'll all defend our hobby to the hilt. So the answers you'll get here are likely to be somewhere between "categorically no" and, well, "categorically no".
Go to a PETA forum, or even the type of forum
Until the day comes where an aquarium fish can actually communicate with us and state one way or the other whether they're happy, or sad in their tank, then we will never ever know.
Some might say, well they look happy, they eat well, they're active, they're breeding, whatever. Do those things really mean the fish is happy, or sad, that's if fish are even able to experience those complex feelings.
I add a little Lexapro to my fish food. They are all doing well. Once a week we all get together with my 2 dogs and have an in house therapy group. Everyone's doing well.
Sad wouldn't be the correct terminology, but in recent yrs there seems to be a number of studies that demonstrate that emotion like states in fish can be regulated by their perception of environmental stimuli. So yes, a small, cramped, stimuli free environment, such as a small bowl, could equate to being a negative experience for certain fish.
Then again, even without the current science in this area, this has always seemed like a no brainer to me.
Then again, even without the current science in this area, this has always seemed like a no brainer to me.
One of no doubt many papers on this subject..........
Cognitive appraisal of environmental stimuli induces emotion-like states in fish | Scientific Reports (nature.com)
Abstract
The occurrence of emotions in non-human animals has been the focus of debate over the years. Recently, an interest in expanding this debate to non-tetrapod vertebrates and to invertebrates has emerged. Within vertebrates, the study of emotion in teleosts is particularly interesting since they represent a divergent evolutionary radiation from that of tetrapods, and thus they provide an insight into the evolution of the biological mechanisms of emotion. We report that Sea Bream exposed to stimuli that vary according to valence (positive, negative) and salience (predictable, unpredictable) exhibit different behavioural, physiological and neuromolecular states. Since according to the dimensional theory of emotion valence and salience define a two-dimensional affective space, our data can be interpreted as evidence for the occurrence of distinctive affective states in fish corresponding to each the four quadrants of the core affective space. Moreover, the fact that the same stimuli presented in a predictable vs. unpredictable way elicited different behavioural, physiological and neuromolecular states, suggests that stimulus appraisal by the individual, rather than an intrinsic characteristic of the stimulus, has triggered the observed responses. Therefore, our data supports the occurrence of emotion-like states in fish that are regulated by the individual’s perception of environmental stimuli.
Cognitive appraisal of environmental stimuli induces emotion-like states in fish | Scientific Reports (nature.com)
Abstract
The occurrence of emotions in non-human animals has been the focus of debate over the years. Recently, an interest in expanding this debate to non-tetrapod vertebrates and to invertebrates has emerged. Within vertebrates, the study of emotion in teleosts is particularly interesting since they represent a divergent evolutionary radiation from that of tetrapods, and thus they provide an insight into the evolution of the biological mechanisms of emotion. We report that Sea Bream exposed to stimuli that vary according to valence (positive, negative) and salience (predictable, unpredictable) exhibit different behavioural, physiological and neuromolecular states. Since according to the dimensional theory of emotion valence and salience define a two-dimensional affective space, our data can be interpreted as evidence for the occurrence of distinctive affective states in fish corresponding to each the four quadrants of the core affective space. Moreover, the fact that the same stimuli presented in a predictable vs. unpredictable way elicited different behavioural, physiological and neuromolecular states, suggests that stimulus appraisal by the individual, rather than an intrinsic characteristic of the stimulus, has triggered the observed responses. Therefore, our data supports the occurrence of emotion-like states in fish that are regulated by the individual’s perception of environmental stimuli.
Agree with RD. There's a lot of science anymore on fish memory, intelligence, and "emotion" (whatever that means for a fish). So-- when scientists find fish can display what appear to be depressed behaviors, similar in some ways to humans, along with similar biochemistry, what would you call it?
To be clear, I don't even remotely elevate animal consciousness to that of humans and I don't feel bad keeping fish. I think it's unscientific and illogical to elevate fish consciousness to compare to the human mind-- I highly doubt there are Einstein, Hawking, and Feynman fish out there contemplating why or how the universe exists or studying whether humans have feelings like fish do. But the science is the science. In my view it's a complex subject, open to interpretation, and in my opinion some even among scientists may be overstating things about how fish experience the universe. However, call it what you want, but (for example) when the same betta that can be active, curious, and interactive with you in a decent tank environment just sits there in a tiny bowl, I say the bowl is inadequate, no matter what you think being "happy" or "depressed" means for a fish.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/fish-have-feelings-too/
To be clear, I don't even remotely elevate animal consciousness to that of humans and I don't feel bad keeping fish. I think it's unscientific and illogical to elevate fish consciousness to compare to the human mind-- I highly doubt there are Einstein, Hawking, and Feynman fish out there contemplating why or how the universe exists or studying whether humans have feelings like fish do. But the science is the science. In my view it's a complex subject, open to interpretation, and in my opinion some even among scientists may be overstating things about how fish experience the universe. However, call it what you want, but (for example) when the same betta that can be active, curious, and interactive with you in a decent tank environment just sits there in a tiny bowl, I say the bowl is inadequate, no matter what you think being "happy" or "depressed" means for a fish.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/fish-have-feelings-too/