My first thought when I started reading this, was energy loss? why not recover the energy loss from the falling water... Hmm does anyone do this already?? Well Niagara fall has falling water... and a power station... why not just put in an electric generator to capture the water before it hits your filter? Maybe using some bio-wheel type contraption. Then rig the power to filter back into your pumps, lights, and heaters. Power assist from outside. This is something they do to rig back up for windmills generators.
Efficient monster filtration Design Discussion
- Thread starter cvermeulen
- Start date
dr_sudz;2140230; said:
Good thought, but generators are also fairly inefficient. Hydroelectric generating facilities have a massive amount of energy at their disposal from the falling water, so if they even manage to recover 1 or 2 percent of it, it's enough. Probably better off just letting it dissipate as heat and insulate your sump and all the plumbing, so you don't lose it to the surrounding air.
Loving the ideas
Okay - wouldnt below tank, gravity fed sumps be more efficient than pumping water abpve the tank? Because the gravity - fed water would go through the filter media, and the pump would only pump it after it was through the media. This is just a theory though
Also, assuming you had to go with pumps, what are the most efficient and reliable pumps available? I will need numerous large volume pumps in the future, and want to know which ones are the most efficient.
Also, assuming you had to go with pumps, what are the most efficient and reliable pumps available? I will need numerous large volume pumps in the future, and want to know which ones are the most efficient.
badisbadis101;2140762; said:
The wasted energy comes in two major ways: first you're adding energy to the water to pump it up to the tank (or from the tank up to the filter, makes no diff) and then letting it fall back to the tank or sump, throwing that energy away. So whether your filter is above or below the tank makes no difference here, only the height difference matters. I see what you're saying - if you use the gravity to force the water through the media instead of using a pump shouldn't it be more efficient? well no... because you still have to put that energy back into the water to pump it up to the tank. A below tank filter just has more height difference to cope with, because the sump is so far below the water level. The other source of energy waste is the whole pump not being optimized for the head height and centrifugal pumps being inefficient to begin with problem.
For me, the only feasible option is a sump, i think. I am just trying to figure out how to minimize my power usage while using a sump
sealed filters dont loose energy in this manner.........only open ones
so use a sealed filter or put the sump at the same height as the tank .... or as you mentioned in the tank
so use a sealed filter or put the sump at the same height as the tank .... or as you mentioned in the tank
cvermeulen;2143574; said:
In the pond hobby industry in Europe there are a lot of filter systems fitting to your needs. They are all gravity fed and require low pressure pumps to run. They are based on the japanese style of filtering with several chambers at the same water level as the pond with mech and bio filtration chambers and a pump in the last chamber.
The drawback to these systems are lack of head for fine mechanical filtration. You could reverse one of these systems however by pumping the water in first. By giving up a minimum of water head, say 5 inches, you could build up a slight pressure gradient that would be enough to run fine filters with. The water level in the first filter chamber would be about one inch above the tank water level. You just need to install your mechanical filter media in this first chamber so that when it starts getting clogged the water level can rise causing a slight back pressure.
As a safety measure the water can overflow into the next chamber once the mechanical filter causes a rise of 4 inches of back pressure because it doesn´t let enough water through. The obvious drawback is that you have to keep checking the water level in the mechanical filter chamber to check whether the mech filter needs cleaning. By installing a high surface area mechanical filter you could get around the problem of the fine filtration clogging up too quickly but cleaning day will eventually come. A variation is to use filter floss and wash or replace it (but that will depend on your budget).
I´ve recently developed a high surface mechanical filter for such a scenario which is 28 inches long, 20 inches wide and 24 inches high. This mechanical filter is meant to be submersible in a sump or the above mentioned filter chamber. It comprises 10 removable elements each built to hold a surface area 24 inch by 24 inch of filter floss (about 4 sq yards in total). The filter floss is sandwiched between two pieces of plastic gridding so that you just have to take an element out and clean it with a garden hose or replace the floss when necessary. Of course for tanks above 3000-4000gal this system starts becomming impractical due to the high mechanical loading of really large tanks.
As for the efficiency of the pump there are more efficient pumps but you could go with the Hagen max flo 2900gph with a max. head of 14 feet, 9 inch and 130 watts power consumption. This pump isn´t the most efficient you can use but at least beats the Docs´ pump for efficiency (he forgot to check the catalogues from this decade
).
As for heat loss in such a system the way the pond keepers in Germany have been doing it in winter the last few years is to cover the ponds with an insulating clear plastic sheet hung across wires suspended above the pond. Whether this system is applicable to monster tanks depends on where the tank is I guess.
j<><
The drawback to these systems are lack of head for fine mechanical filtration. You could reverse one of these systems however by pumping the water in first. By giving up a minimum of water head, say 5 inches, you could build up a slight pressure gradient that would be enough to run fine filters with. The water level in the first filter chamber would be about one inch above the tank water level. You just need to install your mechanical filter media in this first chamber so that when it starts getting clogged the water level can rise causing a slight back pressure.
As a safety measure the water can overflow into the next chamber once the mechanical filter causes a rise of 4 inches of back pressure because it doesn´t let enough water through. The obvious drawback is that you have to keep checking the water level in the mechanical filter chamber to check whether the mech filter needs cleaning. By installing a high surface area mechanical filter you could get around the problem of the fine filtration clogging up too quickly but cleaning day will eventually come. A variation is to use filter floss and wash or replace it (but that will depend on your budget).
I´ve recently developed a high surface mechanical filter for such a scenario which is 28 inches long, 20 inches wide and 24 inches high. This mechanical filter is meant to be submersible in a sump or the above mentioned filter chamber. It comprises 10 removable elements each built to hold a surface area 24 inch by 24 inch of filter floss (about 4 sq yards in total). The filter floss is sandwiched between two pieces of plastic gridding so that you just have to take an element out and clean it with a garden hose or replace the floss when necessary. Of course for tanks above 3000-4000gal this system starts becomming impractical due to the high mechanical loading of really large tanks.
As for the efficiency of the pump there are more efficient pumps but you could go with the Hagen max flo 2900gph with a max. head of 14 feet, 9 inch and 130 watts power consumption. This pump isn´t the most efficient you can use but at least beats the Docs´ pump for efficiency (he forgot to check the catalogues from this decade
). As for heat loss in such a system the way the pond keepers in Germany have been doing it in winter the last few years is to cover the ponds with an insulating clear plastic sheet hung across wires suspended above the pond. Whether this system is applicable to monster tanks depends on where the tank is I guess.
j<><
i was looking into a airlift to move water out of my next tank.... then let gravity return it to the tank.... laqrge blower motor to pretty much run the system... ive been lookin into heaters and 220v seem to be a lil more efficent... just a idea im playing with...
Nic;2145510; said:
Heaters are always 100% efficient (or close enough to it.) All the energy that goes into the heating element gets purposely wasted as heat, so it's tough to build a better mousetrap on that one
