Efficient monster filtration Design Discussion

[justin guest]

Here is what Dark Rivers Hatchery is planning on using to filter 3 1800 gallon fw stingray indoor ponds read the link http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/Aquabead/aquabead_plus.html


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let me know what you think


Jason

Ok for ponds but this type of filter often doesn´t polish the water enough for crystal clear viewing through a glass window. For a monster tank filter with optimal pumping eficiency you´re still in the typical sump pump 5 feet under the tank range.
j<><

 

[justin guest]

Gotcha, didn't mean to bite your head off. Seems a bit like some folks are laughing at things they may or may not understand, so I wanted to be sure we were clear!

No worries. My sense of humour is sometimes a bit abstract
j<><

 

[justin guest]

Here's something I've been thinking of using for my "dream tank" using powerheads. It was inspired by another Monster DIY who's name/project slip my mind at the moment. Was hoping to use something like this for a 200 gallon Archerfish setup with a 3 foot tall enclosed airspace above the tank.

I was hoping to build something myself that was in tank that wouldn't cause alot of surface movement. No clue how it would work but i remember seeing something simular on a previous DIY setup. Looked very slick.

The idea is to make the bioball and filter carbon a couple of cartriges that would slip into the back and seal off with a rubber gasket that would be glued to the walls to keep the water from bypassing. One fine bubble airstone infront of the bioballs and one larger airstone on the left side to airate the tank itself. I'm a long way from the undertaking but I thought I'd take advantage of the thread and throw this out there.

I always understock my tanks so the bioload would be medium to low.

No reason that shouldn´t work well. With larger tanks you´d have to rethink the mech filter a bit as it would clog up too quickly with big fish
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[necrocanis]

Looks awesome, but way out of my price range. Sorry.

Here is what Dark Rivers Hatchery is planning on using to filter 3 1800 gallon fw stingray indoor ponds read the link http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/Aquabead/aquabead_plus.html

the Medusa solves the age old problem of how to filter a large pond while only using one filter.

The problem: Pond is 20 to 25 thousand gallons. You want to turn it over about every 2 hours. A 1/4 hp pump will put out about 5000 gallons an hour. ​

This means you need two filter systems to accomplish this and stay with energy efficient pumps or a giant pool pump moving 10,000 gallons an hour and costing you an arm and a leg in energy costs.​

The Solution: Medusa

With this filter you can run two 1/4 hp or two 1/3 hp pumps and only pull about 5 amps total with the 1/4 hp pumps or 7.6 amps total with the two 1/3 hp pumps.

The Medusa is designed in such a way that all valves and internals of the filter are double that of a regular filter. At no time does each pumps water pathway get smaller than a 2" opening. ​

Every thing is double on this filter so that we maximize the flow potential of each pump. Everything is double on this filter except the price, you'll spend less money on 1 Medusa than installing 2 individual filters.​

The Medusa is designed with the same integrity as the AquaBead filters. Designed to maximize the flow and efficiency of today's modern koi pond pumps.

We remain committed to providing the most energy conscious filtration products in the industry. The Medusa will let you filter a 20,000 - 25,000 gallon pond on a total of only 5 amps!​

listed at bottom on page on link .

The medusa has a flow rate of about 250 gpm which is great and can hook into a in line heater that keeps things nice.

Our vats are 15'LX4'WX4'TALL

let me know what you think


Jason

 

[justin guest]

I think the only real way to see what would happen is to just do it and see if it works. Otherwise you'd never know. It's still beyond me that if your tank and filter are the same height the powerhead would pull the water up and push it forward into the tank. Is everyone trying to say that the water pressure pushing back into the powerhead would prevent it from functioning properly? Maybe I should just use a powerhead on my rugf. lol.

The problem with using a powerhead behind a gravity fed filter system (rugf= undergravel filter? - is also gravity fed) is that once the mechanical filter stage/chamber clogs up, the water level in the filter behind the mech stage will drop. This creates more work for the pump while the water level in the pump chamber will also drop (more suction resistance by undergravel filters). The pump may even start sucking air which means a rapid drop in the amount of water being pumped through the system. The filter will then run with a possibly strongly reduced flow until the mech filter gets cleaned (after holidays or a weekend away for instance).

If you pump from the tank into the filter (only a few inches difference in height) and build bypasses into the system in case the mech or bio chambers clog up, then you don´t need to worry about reduced water circulation during holidays. A bypass could be an empty pvc pipe sitting vertically in a filter chamber with the top rim of the pipe 1 inch above the filter chamber working water level, and the bottom rim 1 inch below the separating sheet/grate holding the filter material off the bottom. for such a system the water flow in the filter chamber would be vertical from top to bottom. The top rim 1 inch clearance would ensure that even by clogging at least some of the water would still be pressed (extra 1 inch pressure head) through the filter media. this would stop the development of anaerobic areas in the short term (weeks) if the filter doesn´t get cleaned immediately. For such a system each chamber would need to be 1 inch below the one in front

Using a system like this, you would always get the maximum efficiency out of the pump because you´re not working with variable water levels like in a gravity fed system (depending on how dirty the filter is).

j<><

 

[johnptc]

T

Still doesn't help with the problem of putting energy into the water to lift it up to tank height, and then letting it fall back down to sump height,

if you put a water tight lid on your sump the water will return itself to the height of the tanks surface like a cannister filter does

 

[johnptc]

Here is what Dark Rivers Hatchery is planning on using to filter 3 1800 gallon fw stingray indoor ponds read the link http://www.macarthurwatergardens.com/Aquabe
listed at bottom on page on link .

The medusa has a flow rate of about 250 gpm which is great and can hook into a in line heater that keeps things nice.

Our vats are 15'LX4'WX4'TALL

let me know what you think


Jason

check out aquadyne bead filters...... to pump that much water you need a couple of big pumps based on the flow charts....alot of flow and a lot of electricity

how many amps at 220 volts or 110 volts to filter 250 gpm ??? remember wattage goes with voltage 220 is double the wattage of 110 at the same amps

 

[CHOMPERS]

i think any head will bring a fan pump to a halt.......i believe the back pressure of flowing thru media will raise the water level and hence create some small head reducing the flow to near zero..........

I agree with John 100%. After looking at a bazillion pump curves, I can honestly say that this is a very consistent trend with low head pumps. The lower the maximum head of a pump, the sharper its performance drops off (exceptions are rare). Hydor USA doesn't have any performance data on their web site, so that leads me to believe that the real data is too embarrassing (not that it lends well to modification for testing) (or DIY for that matter).

Anyway the original concept is interesting. Midnight has a system like this on a tank that his grandfather built.

 

[cvermeulen]

I agree with John 100%. After looking at a bazillion pump curves, I can honestly say that this is a very consistent trend with low head pumps. The lower the maximum head of a pump, the sharper its performance drops off (exceptions are rare). Hydor USA doesn't have any performance data on their web site, so that leads me to believe that the real data is too embarrassing (not that it lends well to modification for testing) (or DIY for that matter).

Anyway the original concept is interesting. Midnight has a system like this on a tank that his grandfather built.

I'm not disagreeing with this statement... what I'm getting at is there should be little to no resistance in a setup like I originally proposed, so there should not be any head to speak of that would bring the pump flow to a halt.

The reason hydor does not post any performance curves is that it's nearly impossible to measure for a pump like this - there is no well defined inlet and outlet, it just pushes the current in a given direction, and their pump ratings are probably based on some guesstimath. There is also really no point posting a 'curve' for the very reason that the pump flow will halt if it requires any resistance. There is so much slip in a fan pump that if the water encounters resistance on the way out of (or into) the housing, it just recirculates.

 

[justin guest]

if you put a water tight lid on your sump the water will return itself to the height of the tanks surface like a cannister filter does

Only problem is the pump still needs some pressure to overcome the initial filling stage and resistance when the filter becomes clogged
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