talk about what you know and not what you think , you got those rio heredia from who, and why do you have to guess if there wild.cchhcc;3647101; said:
F0 jack dempsey's
- Thread starter caribemob
- Start date
Maybe I should keep out of this, but, as a member with a green name, this thread is starting to bother me. I'm pretty sure that I can't be tied to either "side" of this and I feel like I can be objective here. I don't think that I have seen any bashing of either caribemob or Ira with regards to the authenticity of the claims, what benefit would there be to either the OP or the vendor in this case to make false claims. As a vendor (in Canada mind you), I would be happy to answer any of the questions that were asked to the best of my abilities/knowledge, in fact, I hope that customers do a little homework before making a purchase. As a vendor, we have to assume that our suppliers are shipping us what they claim, just like the hobbyists have to count on us to do the same. I hope I haven't offended anyone.
Back to the heart of the matter. . . caribemob, let's see more pics of those JD's! I personally am very excited to see proper JD's in the hobby again, the ones I kept almost 20 years ago looked nothing like the ones available now!
Ray
Back to the heart of the matter. . . caribemob, let's see more pics of those JD's! I personally am very excited to see proper JD's in the hobby again, the ones I kept almost 20 years ago looked nothing like the ones available now!
Ray
Here's a poll to try to quantify the array of attitudes on this issue:
http://www.cichlid.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3447
Matt
http://www.cichlid.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3447
Matt
I hear what dogofwar is saying, and I understand his pov. Not that it matters, but as some of you know, I graduated as a biologist, and I am concerned about the protection of wildlife. The topic is the legality of collecting cichlids in Mexico. There is a law that prohibits the collection of wildlife in Mexico, true. BUT, likke in most countries you can bribe someone at airport and get your fish through, or you can pay a bit more to the gov. and get the same results. Ultimatly its just the gov. taking the money, instead of a person at airport. For ME, it was all legal, as I am an importer/exporter of live fish. I had my docs, from the Mexico side, I had my docs from the US side, I had my docs from the airline! BUT!!! But because some person tending to me did not care about the docs, and had their blinders on, said that animals in water could not ride in the plane as luggage, which is bs, becasue that is how most fish ship, weather it be through the cargo area of an airline or baggage check in, they both ride in the belly of many passenger flights. So my collection were all legal, just a person at airline wanting to make a few hundred dollars as a bribe, which I did NOT do. I am still battling with myself if I should have or not??? US Fish and Wildlife does NOT care if you bring in wild cichlids from Mexico, as long as you have your US F & W license and import docs your good. If you are bringing in more than 200 pcs, then those are considerd commercial qty's and you need a customes broker to have your fish realeseda nd as always a f & W inspection. It' just paying each dept. for their stamp of approval and your good. Its not cocaine, its cichlids, legal to import into US with all your docs. For me it is easy to import into the USA, becasue I have customers in MEX, who I ship overseas fish to, and they have the gov. connections in MEX, so they supply me with the right docs to take fish out of country. Again, as long as you pay!!! It's tne airlines that make the last call. The can be cool and let you pass, or be jerks and you have to pay them off to bring back your catch. In my case it had nothing to do with MEX-Gov't legalities, as that was all taken care of. They wanted me to get a MEX customs broker for thee beani, last trip. OH, they said but they are closed...hint hint...pay me and I will let you pass. The way I see it, and maybe some disagree, and that is cool, as we all have our own way of thinking, and we are entitled to our own opinions. People in Mexico eat cichlids, or their own gov't kills them because some gov't officials buddy paid to allow thier raw waste be dumped into the river killing the cichlids. That is a much bigger form of corruption, than bringing back a few pairs of wild JD's?? My opnion of coarse. If you manage to get a macaw or spider monkey without being caught in MEX, but get caught in US, then you are in BIG trouble!!! But for a few cichlids, not too many, they say go on through, as long as you declare themand have your docs. You can try not declare them, and cross your fingers, but that is illegal, and you can get busted. I always declare. My next point is whay many FO's are expensive, becasue of all the damn payoffs, at least for me. I dont go collect to make $$, I do it for fun, and to get the fish I want. That is why I dont have a big stock list! And to end, the JD's may or may not be wild. You have to trust the seller, and its up to you to buy or not. As for me I prefere to know location, becasue if I am going to breed them, I want to make sure the offspring I produce, is a true varient found in nature. You may have a beani pair, but if one is Presidio or Tepic, and the other is Baluarte, I don't want any fry. Just me, becasue of my conservationist side, and wanting a pure natural strain. So all you cichlid "hommies"..heads etc... Just take it easy, we are all into the same fish, cichlids. At the end of the day, they are mojaras, and taste good fried with garlic at a Taco stand off the side of the road. Get along guys, and I wish all a very HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
JoeFatFish...signing out!
JoeFatFish...signing out!dogofwar;3647560; said:
they are 4.5 and 4'' s, and im getting a better lense this week, oh and thanks the pics dont do no justice trust mecchhcc;3647964; said:
Could you describe the process for getting the proper permits from the Mexican government?
Not trying to break balls...really curious...
Not trying to break balls...really curious...
JoeFatFish;3647906; said:I hear what dogofwar is saying, and I understand his pov. Not that it matters, but as some of you know, I graduated as a biologist, and I am concerned about the protection of wildlife. The topic is the legality of collecting cichlids in Mexico. There is a law that prohibits the collection of wildlife in Mexico, true. BUT, likke in most countries you can bribe someone at airport and get your fish through, or you can pay a bit more to the gov. and get the same results. Ultimatly its just the gov. takin
g the money, instead of a person at airport. For ME, it was all legal, as I am an importer/exporter of live fish. I had my docs, from the Mexico side, I had my docs from the US side, I had my docs from the airline! BUT!!! But because some person tending to me did not care about the docs, and had their blinders on, said that animals in water could not ride in the plane as luggage, which is bs, becasue that is how most fish ship, weather it be through the cargo area of an airline or baggage check in, they both ride in the belly of many passenger flights. So my collection were all legal, just a person at airline wanting to make a few hundred dollars as a bribe, which I did NOT do. I am still battling with myself if I should have or not??? US Fish and Wildlife does NOT care if you bring in wild cichlids from Mexico, as long as you have your US F & W license and import docs your good. If you are bringing in more than 200 pcs, then those are considerd commercial qty's and you need a customes broker to have your fish realeseda nd as always a f & W inspection. It' just paying each dept. for their stamp of approval and your good. Its not cocaine, its cichlids, legal to import into US with all your docs. For me it is easy to import into the USA, becasue I have customers in MEX, who I ship overseas fish to, and they have the gov. connections in MEX, so they supply me with the right docs to take fish out of country. Again, as long as you pay!!! It's tne airlines that make the last call. The can be cool and let you pass, or be jerks and you have to pay them off to bring back your catch. In my case it had nothing to do with MEX-Gov't legalities, as that was all taken care of. They wanted me to get a MEX customs broker for thee beani, last trip. OH, they said but they are closed...hint hint...pay me and I will let you pass. The way I see it, and maybe some disagree, and that is cool, as we all have our own way of thinking, and we are entitled to our own opinions. People in Mexico eat cichlids, or their own gov't kills them because some gov't officials buddy paid to allow thier raw waste be dumped into the river killing the cichlids. That is a much bigger form of corruption, than bringing back a few pairs of wild JD's?? My opnion of coarse. If you manage to get a macaw or spider monkey without being caught in MEX, but get caught in US, then you are in BIG trouble!!! But for a few cichlids, not too many, they say go on through, as long as you declare themand have your docs. You can try not declare them, and cross your fingers, but that is illegal, and you can get busted. I always declare. My next point is whay many FO's are expensive, becasue of all the damn payoffs, at least for me. I dont go collect to make $$, I do it for fun, and to get the fish I want. That is why I dont have a big stock list! And to end, the JD's may or may not be wild. You have to trust the seller, and its up to you to buy or not. As for me I prefere to know location, becasue if I am going to breed them, I want to make sure the offspring I produce, is a true varient found in nature. You may have a beani pair, but if one is Presidio or Tepic, and the other is Baluarte, I don't want any fry. Just me, becasue of my conservationist side, and wanting a pure natural strain. So all you cichlid "hommies"..heads etc... Just take it easy, we are all into the same fish, cichlids. At the end of the day, they are mojaras, and taste good fried with garlic at a Taco stand off the side of the road. Get along guys, and I wish all a very HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!
