F3 P14

[DavidW]

DavidW,
why?

Why do you ask why someone wants to get it right but not ask if someone is using the term incorrectly?
Shouldn't we all be on the same page with our definitions, using the correct sense of the definition? For me knowing and using the correct terminology is important to control/prevent inbreeding (Vs line breeding)
F1 F2 etc has a precise meaning that T1 has been known to meander from.
I was simply curious to know the exact lineage of what he is calling F3. Why should there be a problem for him to describe the family tree?
True F3 is a long way down the road with a level of inbreeding that T1 has previously passionately spoken out against against.
2 unrelated rays are (F0), their offspring is (F1)then brother bred with sister (F1), their offspring bred brother with sister (F2), and finally (F3) generation. This is inarguable.

Again tho, congrats to T1 for his breeding success

 

[Bogwoodbruce]

sorry you lost one, best of luck with the last

 

[sharp tooth]

DavidW,i asked why simply because your first post in the thread was to have a dig at richard and his understanding of them being F3. not to offer advice or help, just to start an argument.

glad you got some great advice richard and i wish the little one the best of luck.

you did tell me the larger female has been pushing her about abit, which is why im thinking its her causeing the stress.

how old are your uv tubes which are running on the tank at the moment mate?

 

[StefanW]

In my opinion, the way David is thinking about the terms F0, F1, F2 and so on, is scientifically correct, cause that's the same I got teached at university!
The way the terms are used by many or maybe most aquarists are as far as I can estimate, simplified and at least scientifically NOT correct, sorry!

I do not think, that it's always necessary in our hobby, to be 100% scientifically correct, but it can undoubtly sometimes be very usefull to know, what our conversational partners are talking about ;-)

 

[sharp tooth]

In my opinion, the way David is thinking about the terms F0, F1, F2 and so on, is scientifically correct, cause that's the same I got teached at university!
The way the terms are used by many or maybe most aquarists are as far as I can estimate, simplified and at least scientifically NOT correct, sorry!

no need to be sorry mate, im not arugeing it one bit.

 

[Toxic Fish 9999]

Thoes are amazing gl hope they make it all the way

 

[rayman]

Hi Richard,

wish you good luck with the pup!

@David, same discussion on and on.
The last time when this popped up (F2 was the topic then) I wrote you this:

The term F2 is not only used in line breeding.
In management of captive populations F0 are all wildcaught animals, F1 are all of their offspring and F2 is offspring of F1 x F1 (related and unrelated) and F0 x F1 (related and unrelated) animals.

How these terms are used for captive populations you can see here:
http://www.lanevol.org/LANE/jamboa_2.html

 

[T1KARMANN]

Why do you ask why someone wants to get it right but not ask if someone is using the term incorrectly?
Shouldn't we all be on the same page with our definitions, using the correct sense of the definition? For me knowing and using the correct terminology is important to control/prevent inbreeding (Vs line breeding)
F1 F2 etc has a precise meaning that T1 has been known to meander from.
I was simply curious to know the exact lineage of what he is calling F3. Why should there be a problem for him to describe the family tree?
True F3 is a long way down the road with a level of inbreeding that T1 has previously passionately spoken out against against.
2 unrelated rays are (F0), their offspring is (F1)then brother bred with sister (F1), their offspring bred brother with sister (F2), and finally (F3) generation. This is inarguable.

Again tho, congrats to T1 for his breeding success

well as stated about 1 year ago when you 1st mentioned this

its best you point out your finding to every Asian arowana breeder in the world as their certs ALL state F2 and beyond

if their is nothing after F1 F2 then what does F2 and beyond mean

they are stating F2 and beyond to confirm that the aros for sale are not from wild caught fish and bred over a few generations

everyone else here knew what i was talking about so it seams its only you who is on a different page

everyone else says congrats and i hope they make it

i know for a fact they wont make it

but the best MrW can come up with is what do you mean by F3 but you know exactly what i mean or have you forgot the thead last year

your bully boy tactics may shake other members but not me

im a big boy and can handle myself in forums

now thats the rant over as i dont wont to get my own thread closed

 

[StefanW]

Hi Andreas,

that's interesting, so both different uses of the terms F0, F1 and so on are correct and it only depends on what we are talking about, line breeding or not......at my field of study we were only talking about these terms in issues of plant cultivation for horti- and agricultural (also when breeding animals) use. Of course, in that case only linebreeding was of interest!!
That's mentioned by the way, also the reason why I cannot 100% agree, if someone tells me, he's breeding (züchten) rays. If the term would be used as I was teached, we all are only propagating (vermehren) rays breeding always has a certain aim we are following when combining certain parents! I am once again sorry about this excursion and I also do not know, if this is a speciality of our horti- and agricultural german view in using those two terms and if you english speaking guys can even realize the "problem" I have?

Maybe David also has a horti- or agricultural background and that's the reason why he is used to use the terms as I am used to use them?

For my part I learned today, that there are two correct points of view in the use of the terms F0, F1......

Regards
Stefan

 

[T1KARMANN]

Hi Andreas,

that's interesting, so both different uses of the terms F0, F1 and so on are correct and it only depends on what we are talking about, line breeding or not......at my field of study we were only talking about these terms in issues of plant cultivation for horti- and agricultural (also when breeding animals) use. Of course, in that case only linebreeding was of interest!!
That's mentioned by the way, also the reason why I cannot 100% agree, if someone tells me, he's breeding (züchten) rays. If the term would be used as I was teached, we all are only propagating (vermehren) rays breeding always has a certain aim we are following when combining certain parents! I am once again sorry about this excursion and I also do not know, if this is a speciality of our horti- and agricultural german view in using those two terms and if you english speaking guys can even realize the "problem" I have?

Maybe David also has a horti- or agricultural background and that's the reason why he is used to use the terms as I am used to use them?

For my part I learned today, that there are two correct points of view in the use of the terms F0, F1......

Regards
Stefan

Stefan

thanks for all the advice i have taken it all on board most of the things you mentioned had been done but i added your extra tips

like i said i dont think they will make it but as long as i give them all the help i can thats all that counts