Feral jaguars

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I'm typing all this on my phone, unfortunately I don't have time to type a point-for-point rebuttal. Maybe later.

So you wrote, "I only mentioned the adaptations because because you mentioned how they have an elongate head and unique pattern and eluded to it being due to them being feral. Essentially I tried to lend credence to your statement, foolish I suppose on my part trying to give you any credit for your thought process. By the way again my statement fits into a comparison regardless. Hybrids are unnatural due to the manipulation of their breeding partners by man correct? So if a man introduces a animal to an environment it would not otherwise ever inhabit isn't that unnatural? Doesn't that again fit the definition of a comparison. Both instances involve man's manipulation hence making it unnatural by your own definition of unnatural."

- I never suggested that their different appearance was the result of their environment. It was other members who suggested so. Please read my original post again. I said it made them look more predatory and that I liked it, and ended the post with asking if other members liked their appearance too. Maybe you should take more care with reading and taking apart my posts?

- My position is that manmade fish are unnatural. The presence of invasive species in any particular habitat is manmade and unnatural, yes, but that does not make the individual animals themselves unnatural, since the only difference between a feral population (in this case, at least) and the wild native populations would be in terms of location. How does that make the animals "unnatural" in the same way that a hybrid is unnatural?
 
The fish are unique and quite attractive looking. I'd be happy to have one of my old jag x dovii offspring back. They had an awesome jag personality with a tinge of dovii rage. Does your pair show signs of aggression or are they more mellow?


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flowerpower said:
The fish are unique and quite attractive looking. I'd be happy to have one of my old jag x dovii offspring back. They had an awesome jag personality with a tinge of dovii rage. Does your pair show signs of aggression or are they more mellow?


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They are very mellow. The story is this: I previously had a La Ceiba freddy pair in the tank (the pair in my avatar). The male went berserk after a couple of uneventful weeks with his female and killed her. Then about a week after I saw a local guy post here on MFK that he had fished a pair of jags out from a local canal and was selling them for a token sum. I saw pics and video and liked what I saw so I got them, and at the time the male La Ceiba was still with me (sold him just today) and I dumped the jags right in. Naturally the La Ceiba wasn't too happy and showed it, but the male jag is almost twice his mass, so the freddy lost every time. What surprised me was the fact that after the typically brief initial skirmishes, the jags just let him be. When I took him out of the tank today to send him to a new home he had one small tear in his anal fin but no other injuries. And this is a 52 gallon tank I'm talking about! The male jag does push the female around occasionally but she responds with gill flaring and head shaking of her own so it does look pretty good at the moment. Last year I had a loisellei pair in the same sized tank which was quite a bit more aggressive/defensive.

To be honest I still feel they are pure jags (the female certainly is, I'll get pics of her and you can judge). Dovii over here in Singapore are exceedingly rare - all of the specimens here to my knowledge are progeny from a Costa Rican pair imported from Jeff Rapps in 2006, and we import from Rapps only about once a year and dovii very rarely appear in the shipment. Which is why I don't feel it is likely that ANY jag-dovii hybrids exist here at all.
 
Please, everyone keep the conversation on topic and civil. I don't want to see this thread take a wrong turn.
 
Nice jaguar cichlids. It doesn't take as long as people think for animals to change to the environment. After fire ants were introduced the lizards here adapted by having significantly longer legs in just a couple decades. So its possible that they are just jaguars but they could also be hybrids, it really doesn't matter though. They are very nice fish.

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I agree, Tom. No need to get personal here.
I managed to find an old vid of the pair I kept from that old spawn I was telling you about. Notice the straight horizontal rows of spots on his flanks. I kept this male because he had the right mix for me but his siblings were not all as 'jag' as him. The female looks way more dovii than jag in my opinion. I often wonder what their offspring would have looked like. One of the most fantastic looking male specimens I've ever owned!
http://youtu.be/8GnFt5f8dJI


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flowerpower said:
I agree, Tom. No need to get personal here.
I managed to find an old vid of the pair I kept from that old spawn I was telling you about. Notice the straight horizontal rows of spots on his flanks. I kept this male because he had the right mix for me but his siblings were not all as 'jag' as him. The female looks way more dovii than jag in my opinion. I often wonder what their offspring would have looked like. One of the most fantastic looking male specimens I've ever owned!
http://youtu.be/8GnFt5f8dJI
Click to expand...
That's a nice looking fish, I like the yellow. It does look distinctly dovii-like to me though, I mean I see clear dovii characteristics - the forehead, the coloured fins (jags don't have fins like that); these are things I don't see in my male "jag". Although his lateral spots do seem reminiscent of dovii, but I remember reading somewhere that Nicaraguan or the northern "form" of managuensis has smaller spots like these instead of the marbling seen on Honduran and other southern managuensis?
 
Hmm, I've seen different colors and patterns on different jags but never horizontal rows on the body like that. That screams dovii or motaguense to me. If you've got a link to that article, id be interested in reading it.
It's hard to say with feral hybrids since your looking at several generations and potentially hundreds of enormous spawns.
Do you know anyone else around you that has these feral jags?


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FishFreak95 said:
Nice jaguar cichlids. It doesn't take as long as people think for animals to change to the environment. After fire ants were introduced the lizards here adapted by having significantly longer legs in just a couple decades. So its possible that they are just jaguars but they could also be hybrids, it really doesn't matter though. They are very nice fish.

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It does matter. :( I really cannot stand hybrids...at all.

flowerpower said:
Hmm, I've seen different colors and patterns on different jags but never horizontal rows on the body like that. That screams dovii or motaguense to me. If you've got a link to that article, id be interested in reading it.
It's hard to say with feral hybrids since your looking at several generations and potentially hundreds of enormous of spawns.
Do you know anyone else around you that has these feral jags?


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I don't think it was an article, it was a thread on this forum from 2008 or 2009, but not sure how reliable that information really is. I'm quite certain I could search for it and find it, because I read it a few weeks ago.

Nope, nobody else. Feral jags are not common here. As a matter of fact this is the first time I have ever seen any, or heard of a feral jaguar population here in Singapore. For what it's worth.
 
A little off topic, but why can't you stand hybrids? I've just never really understood the stigma on hybrids within the world of fish keeping, its not like our captive populations affect wild ones. Would you all of a sudden dislike the fish if they were some how proven to be hybrids?

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