Filtration for 300 gallons

[DN328]

Sumps have two disadvantages over canisters. I ran a 265 for years on 4 eheims. 2 pro 3s and 2 pro2s. One of the pro 2 was a dedicated peat filter to maintain pH and yellow water of the amazon. You can hide all the tech with a drilled over flow that acts as you intake strainer. The tech hanging in or on the tank is a choice.

First you have to keep the sump level low enough so that if your power fails you don't get a flood, sump has to be able to hold extra water from the tank. Also that you are home when it restarts depending on you overflow configuration. If you overflow fails to properly restart you get a flood. In your own house in the basement not a big deal. In a apartment your down stairs neighbor will be less than thrilled.

Second a sump uses far more electricity than a canister. A sump pump has to bring the water up several feet. the canister filter only a few inches over the lip of the tank. That's why canisters can get 500 gph with a 25 watt motor while the same flow with a 4 foot head requires roughly 50 watt. Not sure how bad electricity cost is in Norway.

As far as better vs worse. That depends on your personal situation. There are no magic bullets and I doubt there will ever be. Sumps are cheaper to set up. all you need is an old tank some plexiglass and silicone. You can then customize your sump however you want. However cleaning and maintenance WILL involve a wet floor*. Canister WILL be much more expensive but with an eheim it's unplug, close the valve (also disconnects canister), drag to sink, clean, stick back on tank, open valve turn on. If the power fails everything just stops.

* Pretty sure someone here will tell me that he's had sumps since he was 12 and its been 30 years not one drop on one floor. Been both hobbyist and professional tank maintenance tech for 25+ years. So far have not seen it yet.

Well, I've been using a sump for 60 years since I was five and have never spilled one drop of water - I'm that careful and meticulous...j/k ;-)

As said above, it's all about planning it right. Yes, if one doesnt know what she/he is doing then bad things could happen. But overflowing sump and having to he present for start ups is truly just someone not doing it right.

I think there are pros and cons to all approaches and I think canisters have its place for many people. I would say go that approach if you don't want to invest the time to do it right or dont feel comfortable. I just want to differentiate cons you say vs. just bad implementation do to bad design and basic knowledge.

I wouldn't be too sure my DC pumps would consume more electricity than 4 canisters. Moreover, returns with canister or sump return pump often both are use to return water at the TOP of the tank...but that does vary too.

 

[Jhay3513]

Yep I turn my pumps off everyday to keep the food from going into my sump when I feed my fish. Just put my pump into feed mode, feed the fish and then go on with my morning routine. My pump starts back up on its own and resumes operation

 

[ragin_cajun]

Hmmmm......I think all these "disadvantages" are design problems that have been discussed extensively here at MFK.

sump has to be able to hold extra water from the tank.

Not exactly--the sump only needs to hold whatever water is in the plumbing and the overflow box above the top of the standpipe when the pumps turn off. So plan your sump accordingly--that's kinda how you size a sump.

depending on you overflow configuration. If you overflow fails to properly restart you get a flood. In your own house in the basement not a big deal

ANY flood is a big deal--it should never happen. Once again, you plan your sump, AND tank, accordingly. This is why I won't use a siphon type overflow. My tank is drilled on the bottom, internal overflow boxes with weirs. They can accommodate the flow rates I planned when I ordered the tank.

A sump pump has to bring the water up several feet. the canister filter only a few inches over the lip of the tank.

I have a 125 with Eheim cans in the stand underneath it--no higher than a pump in a sump would be if I went that route. I don't think aquarists typically install canister filters any higher than they would a sump, so I'm not sure that head height is normally any less with a can than a sump. If not, then cans are not inherently more energy efficient than sumps. They both use pretty much the same types of pumps.

However cleaning and maintenance WILL involve a wet floor*

I haven't noticed any more water on the floor with my sump than with my canisters. When I unplug my Eheim, I bring a small bucket under the stand with me to catch the water that comes out of the Eheim plugs installed in the hoses. So....whether you have a sump or canister, you just take some time to keep the floors dry. There's no difference at all.

I think all of this is explained regularly here at MFK. There's no reason for anyone who follows the discussions here to build sumps with these problems.

These are not disadvantages to be tolerated. These are design challenges that are easily overcome with planning and research.

 

[jaws7777]

Jebao pumps use much less electricity than most cans. Fx6 doesnt use much but the flow is garbage. 2262 has great flow but uses 85w. You could run twp jebaos on the lower settings and be at less wattage

 

[MadRussian79]

I have a 125 with Eheim cans in the stand underneath it--no higher than a pump in a sump would be if I went that route. I don't think aquarists typically install canister filters any higher than they would a sump, so I'm not sure that head height is normally any less with a can than a sump. If not, then cans are not inherently more energy efficient than sumps. They both use pretty much the same types of pumps.

Um no. The canister is pressurized so the height of the canister had very little to do with it. The only thing the canister pump has to do is pump the water over the lip of the tank. It's pushing past media but the head pressure is very little.

Hmmmm......I think all these "disadvantages" are design problems that have been discussed extensively here at MFK.

And it continues to be discussed for a reason. Sumps require both the information in the discussion and a bit of trial and error as each setup will have unique challenges. Canister is a simpler solution. Better? Depends on your set up.

ANY flood is a big deal--it should never happen. Once again, you plan your sump, AND tank, accordingly. This is why I won't use a siphon type overflow. My tank is drilled on the bottom, internal overflow boxes with weirs. They can accommodate the flow rates I planned when I ordered the tank.

Again no. First can't drill tanks with tempered glass bottom. Not an issue if you get a perfeco pre drilled but that's not what he has. Also when those seals go you have to drain the whole tank to replace. If you plan on setting up a drilled tank then buy one to start with with the proper overflow boxes. If you are putting in your own stand pipes you are asking for trouble.

ANY flood is a big deal--it should never happen. Once again, you plan your sump, AND tank, accordingly. This is why I won't use a siphon type overflow. My tank is drilled on the bottom, internal overflow boxes with weirs. They can accommodate the flow rates I planned when I ordered the tank.

Did tank maintenance on the north shore of long island. This is a place where the cars cost more than most of our houses. Top end professionally designed systems. At least 3 of theses systems had fundamental flaws, just outright bad designs. In a third case it was operator error. Someone trying to be helpful added water to the sump when it started blowing air. Added too much then the power went out.

Not saying you can't do perfectly well with a sump I have one on my reef. It keeps the heater and skimmer out of the tank. The pump uses a lot more power for the same flow. Sumps require experience, experience comes from mistakes. Canisters are higher initial outlay but cheaper and easier to operate. As far as filtration quality I have yet to see any distinct advantage. Plenty of well stocked large tanks running on Pro3 and zero organics. Plenty of tanks with large sumps the are a mess. Same goes for the reverse.

 

[jaws7777]

Um no. The canister is pressurized so the height of the canister had very little to do with it. The only thing the canister pump has to do is pump the water over the lip of the tank. It's pushing past media but the head pressure is very little.


And it continues to be discussed for a reason. Sumps require both the information in the discussion and a bit of trial and error as each setup will have unique challenges. Canister is a simpler solution. Better? Depends on your set up.



Again no. First can't drill tanks with tempered glass bottom. Not an issue if you get a perfeco pre drilled but that's not what he has. Also when those seals go you have to drain the whole tank to replace. If you plan on setting up a drilled tank then buy one to start with with the proper overflow boxes. If you are putting in your own stand pipes you are asking for trouble.



Did tank maintenance on the north shore of long island. This is a place where the cars cost more than most of our houses. Top end professionally designed systems. At least 3 of theses systems had fundamental flaws, just outright bad designs. In a third case it was operator error. Someone trying to be helpful added water to the sump when it started blowing air. Added too much then the power went out.

Not saying you can't do perfectly well with a sump I have one on my reef. It keeps the heater and skimmer out of the tank. The pump uses a lot more power for the same flow. Sumps require experience, experience comes from mistakes. Canisters are higher initial outlay but cheaper and easier to operate. As far as filtration quality I have yet to see any distinct advantage. Plenty of well stocked large tanks running on Pro3 and zero organics. Plenty of tanks with large sumps the are a mess. Same goes for the reverse.

doesnt a can pushing water up through hose not deal with headloss the same as a pump pushing water up through pvc ? Maybe less because of 90's but still has loss.

Dc pumps do not pull the wattage of some cans.

 

[ragin_cajun]

Um no. The canister is pressurized so the height of the canister had very little to do with it.

No? So the weight of a column of water in a tube is different when you put a canister than if you put a submersible pump in a sump? How is that?

If you plan on setting up a drilled tank then buy one to start with with the proper overflow boxes.

That's what I'm talking about.

experience comes from mistakes

It doesn't have to. With research, planning, and use of proven designs, we don't have to learn the "hard way".

I also have a sump on a 540 gallon tank. It's been up and running for almost 3 years now. Dead silent, no floods, no issues with power, none of the problems you describe. I had never SEEN a sump working on an aquarium before, and had no professional experience with them. All I have is reading comprehension and some academic training in assessing sound design and following directions. ANYONE can do this, it's just not that hard. Follow some directions, use a design that's proven to work.

You're making sumps sound a lot more difficult than they really are. Why?

 

[Siddons11]

Canisters are rated for certain GPH on the box but that number are cut in half when they are packed with media.
I also question your theory stating that head height does not affect canisters. Sure the canister is pressurized, but that's created by the pump...
MadRussian79

 

[MadRussian79]

Canisters are rated for certain GPH on the box but that number are cut in half when they are packed with media.
I also question your theory stating that head height does not affect canisters. Sure the canister is pressurized, but that's created by the pump...
MadRussian79

Media yeah those filters are rated empty. Just like those pumps are rated at Zero head pressure.

Head No. It's a closed system. The pressure is created by the water standing in the canister. The pump pressure is what pushes the water up and over the edge of the tank. The pressure produced by the canister intake is in equilibrium with the output when canister is off.

 

[Jhay3513]

Also when those seals go you have to drain the whole tank to replace.

This is not true if you're running an over flow the water level just has to be under the overflow weir and all you would drain is the over flow. I know this because I've drain my over flow a few times when I was adjusting my flow pattern. All I have to do is remove the PVC and it'll drain the over flow completely into the sump. It honestly sounds like you're passing a lot of opinions off as facts. Canisters are not perfect as I've stated before my living room was flooded over night due to a canister which is what actually sparked my interest in sumps. "Professionally designed systems" means very little to me cause many things that are "professionally designed" have flaws that might have been glazed over during the design which is why auto manufactures have what's called recall programs.