You're right. DNA analysis continues to screw taxonomy up. I'm a snake guy too, and DNA is causing a major shake-up in the king snakes, milk snakes, and rat snakes. Its a royal pain. They need to make up their mind. We either need to name creatures using the new DNA comparisons or we need to use the older ways of comparative anatomy.
Friedrichsthalii or Motaguense or Loisellei?
- Thread starter sje106
- Start date
I'm not sure it's fair to say that molecular techniques screw up taxonomy. They may complicate long-held beliefs about species status, which can be annoying from the perspective of a hobbyist, but the intent is to understand the evolutionary relationships among species. The process is slowed when results are inconclusive, controversial (e.g., on merits/limitations of the techniques employed), or contradictory with other pieces of information. But hopefully over time the proper relationships will be revealed. The goal isn't to settle on a name for the convenience of fish keepers, although I concur it would be nice to have more definitive answers. I'm guessing the research funds available to study CA cichlid phylogenetics is difficult to come by, which contributes to the slow pace of progress.
THose are both from my collection. The fish on the left is the F0 male from Rio Danto from La Ceiba, Honduras, originally thought to be a new species, then ID'd as Loiselle. Paul Loiselle said it wasn't as well as Juan Miquel...said it was Fredrichsthali. My last conversation with Paul, he said he was leaning back toward it being a new species. The male adult looks much different than the male Freddie we normally see. The Freddie on the right is from Cenote Escondido. The males of each variant look entirely different. The females look similar with the front of the female head on the Yellowhead being slightly concave...slight slope up the forehead.
Female Freddie Yellowhead: http://modevlin.zenfolio.com/p234868898/hb953586#hb953586
Female Freddie Escondido: http://modevlin.zenfolio.com/p40377674/h180bfa36#h180bfa36
Your Freddie is not the "Yellowhead". Standard Freddie. I'm also leaning toward it being a female as well.
Agreed. I personally think putting the location on the fish is important. Maybe not to everyone... but from my perspective, I want to know where those slight variations, if any, occur.
The fish was not officially described and likely won't happen anytime soon. This, along with other fish like the Carpinte "Rio Salto", the new variant of Umbriferum that out there now and a bunch of others require a lot more field work, scientific analysis and yes, even DNA to determine what exactly they are...or at least will be called. Even with that it's no guarantee it will be called "that" for long. The common names more often than not are just a means of chatting about and selling the fish. Adding your own "us" or "um" to the name doesn't make it a new species.
Look at Archocentrus nigrofasciatus, the convict. For years one fish, now split into three categories. The Honduran Red Points...where do they fit in. One of the things that takes the most work isn't collecting and identifying the fish. It's collecting a LOT of fish of other species from the same area to determine what the fish ISN'T. Sounds crazy. DNA tests can tell a lot, but they are expensive and not done as frequently as you might think. The lumpers and splitters still rely on ray and scale count as well as a host of other criteria to put the label du jour on the fish.
My F0 P. Fredrichsthali "La Ceiba" literally JUST died this past week. He topped out at 14". Personally, I think if it is a new species it is likely a wild form hybrid of Managuense and Fredrichsthali. Just my opinion. I always defer to the people who are the experts like Paul, Juan, Rusty and the like. So till then...P. fredrichsthali "La Ceiba". I still have a half dozen of the fish. An awesome and incredibly beautiful fish.
Sux to hear the wild fish died. My big boy is 13-1/2" he is a monster. A true sight to behold. Do you have any recent pics of the 14" bohemoth?
Drew
Drew
Drew, all
What do you make of this? It is a wild caught parachromis, I'm told from Guatemala, but not sure if it's a Freddie or an old school gold moto...the source is a reliable collector so I am fairly sure he was honest about it but not sure on species. Any opinions are appreciated.
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What do you make of this? It is a wild caught parachromis, I'm told from Guatemala, but not sure if it's a Freddie or an old school gold moto...the source is a reliable collector so I am fairly sure he was honest about it but not sure on species. Any opinions are appreciated.
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Dan,.... that fish is ugly. Send it to me asap! You dont want it ruining your reputation. J/K Did you get a female too? Any way to see out of tank photos? I would be interested in seeing if it was a gold tiger I have heard of gold tigers but never seen them personally. I am going to shoot you a text later in regards to the CCA donation.
Drew
Drew
Not recent. Toward the end he started looking a little rough. I did take a photo of the body next to a ruler for posterity.
