He said he got them from a breeder. So captive bred.
Maybe try a batch from a different breeder. Weak genes maybe?
Geos dropping like flies
- Thread starter BMac91
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Maybe try a batch from a different breeder. Weak genes maybe?
Yes, they are captive bred.
Water had heavy tannins from the driftwood for a while, it has gone for the most part. Could tannins alone be an issue and the fact that they aren't present as much?
People have different theories on feeding, often it's mostly personal preference or personal opinion and not much more concrete than that-- that a fish grazes during the day in the wild doesn't always necessitate multiple feedings in a tank with the more nutritionally dense foods we're feeding them. What I can tell you is I bred red head geos for a number of years and by the time they reach 2 inches they'll do just as well on one feeding per day. But that's also my preference based on my experience, doesn't make twice a day a bad thing.
There's several potential reasons for mystery deaths like that, what seems more likely to a person is often based on their own particular experience or observation, doesn't make it the answer. I'm a stickler on diet so I look at diet; beyond that I was brainstorming other possibilities for mystery deaths like that based on what I know or personal experience, none of it's meant to question your experience or care... as far as the sand, I was typing while Duane was posting, didn't intend to harp on the subject.
pH up to 8 doesn't bother red head geos ime. In fact, I inadvertently had a tank go over well over 8 once (I normally keep mine in the mid 7s), lost a couple of guinacara in the tank before I figured it out and rectified it, the red heads were just fine.
I've kept geos (red heads and others) in varying tannins, from tea looking to completely clear. They've done fine either way for me.
Again, just throwing this out there-- sometimes you don't see the actual aggression in the tank because it happens after you turn the lights off. Took me years of fishkeeping before I figured out this accounts for some mystery fish deaths-- it does. Sevs are normally good with geos, including red heads ime, but might be worth turning out tank lights and watching the tank for a while or coming back into the room just to check.
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What size pellets are you using? Geos are unique in that they eat very tiny food particles in relation to their size due to their sifting. The fact they seem to be gasping after sifting is interesting. I know many geo keepers that only feed their 7"-10" adults the .5mm pellets due to their feeding methods. A lot of people use pellets that are just too big. Just tossing it out there.
Pellets weren't fed very often, but they are the smallest pellets hikari, I think they are micro or mini? They are the sinking version also.
Today saw the last Winemilleri go, I am down to 2 Red Heads and the Sevs. Guess we will see.
Thanks to everyone so far for the opinions, knowledge, etc.
Today saw the last Winemilleri go, I am down to 2 Red Heads and the Sevs. Guess we will see.
Thanks to everyone so far for the opinions, knowledge, etc.
I was also going to ask about pellet size.
Some studies have been done on gut contents of wild Geo's, suggesting they invest very small crustaceans.
I believe the first I read about it was in an article by Dr Wayne Leibel, sorry can't recall which one.
Some studies have been done on gut contents of wild Geo's, suggesting they invest very small crustaceans.
I believe the first I read about it was in an article by Dr Wayne Leibel, sorry can't recall which one.
Do they act strange before they die? Stop eating for a day or so? Are the bases of their pectoral fins red? Any redness in their noses? It sounds something like an internal bacterial infection sweeping through them all one by one.
I have seen geos die due to the stress of bullying from other geos if you have a large group in too small a tank, but if you're losing two species and you're down to small numbers I doubt it's aggression. The severums shouldn't be bothering them to the point of death.
I do massive water changes once a week at least on all my South American fish. 40% weekly in a moderately to heavily stocked tank with multiple daily feedings sounds light, IMO.
As long as your sand is pure silica sand without additives of any kind then it's not the sand. I have used silica sand from Lowe's, Home Depot, pool supply stores, etc. in every tank I've had for the past ten years and never had issues stemming from that.
It's also not Hikari unless it's a contaminated batch, because I use Hikari Cichlid Biogold and Hikari Discus Biogold as staples with my fish and they are growing and spawning. Almost every cichlid I've posted on this forum since 2008 has been raised on Hikari food, so regardless of whether some people dislike that food, I think my track record has proven that you can grow and breed beautiful, healthy cichlids on that diet. (Yes, I have also used NLS, sometimes interchangeably, but I have never seen a difference in health or vitality.)
I have seen geos die due to the stress of bullying from other geos if you have a large group in too small a tank, but if you're losing two species and you're down to small numbers I doubt it's aggression. The severums shouldn't be bothering them to the point of death.
I do massive water changes once a week at least on all my South American fish. 40% weekly in a moderately to heavily stocked tank with multiple daily feedings sounds light, IMO.
As long as your sand is pure silica sand without additives of any kind then it's not the sand. I have used silica sand from Lowe's, Home Depot, pool supply stores, etc. in every tank I've had for the past ten years and never had issues stemming from that.
It's also not Hikari unless it's a contaminated batch, because I use Hikari Cichlid Biogold and Hikari Discus Biogold as staples with my fish and they are growing and spawning. Almost every cichlid I've posted on this forum since 2008 has been raised on Hikari food, so regardless of whether some people dislike that food, I think my track record has proven that you can grow and breed beautiful, healthy cichlids on that diet. (Yes, I have also used NLS, sometimes interchangeably, but I have never seen a difference in health or vitality.)
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Ryan's suggestion also leads me back to a bacterial infection theory, especially because you weren't quarantining.
Some bacteria have the ability to remain dormant in filters or in detritus under the substrate for long periods, and will only make an appearance, if there is stressful situation, or something out of the ordinary happens, like a temp change, or pH shift, or until they reach significant numbers to do damage.
And although I don't consider 81'F that high, when I kept Geo's, I preferreed to keep mine at cooler temps of mid to low 70s.
Some bacteria become more virulent at temps of 80'F or above (in some of my tanks columnaris sometimes became a problem during heat waves where temps of 80 and above occurred).
Some bacteria have the ability to remain dormant in filters or in detritus under the substrate for long periods, and will only make an appearance, if there is stressful situation, or something out of the ordinary happens, like a temp change, or pH shift, or until they reach significant numbers to do damage.
And although I don't consider 81'F that high, when I kept Geo's, I preferreed to keep mine at cooler temps of mid to low 70s.
Some bacteria become more virulent at temps of 80'F or above (in some of my tanks columnaris sometimes became a problem during heat waves where temps of 80 and above occurred).
Water changes also matter in terms of viral and bacterial loads. It's not just nitrates we are removing. Water changes reduce bacteria in the tank, remove dissolved organics like slime coat, feces, uneaten food, decaying plant or algal matter, and they also replenish minerals that the fish are absorbing from the water. Water changes are the most important aspect of keeping fish, especially SA fish, in my opinion. I've had geos and blackwater cichlids like Uaru and Hoplarchus start to break down if I skip water changes. They are evolved in very clean water, so their systems don't seem to handle it well if they're bombarded with bacteria or dissolved organic buildup in the water.
There is no redness anywhere that I can see. Typically, they will become a little lethargic and will keep to themselves under a piece of driftwood or in a tank corner, they do become less interested in food, but never stopped eating altogether. They wouldn't make an effort to go eat, but if food floated by them, they would grab it. The progression I noticed was once they became lethargic, typically they didn't make it through the night and would find them dead the following morning.
If it was an internal bacteria that is sweeping through, is it something that is simply affecting the Geo species only? I will kick up the water changes to 40-50% 3 times this week to start reducing bacteria inside the tank. If possible, I'd like to save the remaining 2 and prevent the Sevs from getting it as well. Guess technically it'd be hard to assess if the Sevs were subject to it as they may have an immunity built up to the specific bacteria type.
