Giant Sea Turtle Slaughtered In Gaza * GRAPHIC WARNING *

[pdbrady]

Perhaps that is because the concept of 'right' and 'wrong' are not always black and white as we would like them to be.

Oh, and agreeing and disagreeing at the same time makes no sense at all unless you clarify



Sorry I missed this point earlier, but I do have thoughts on it.

Suggesting they were being deceptive is not too far of a stretch, which is why I earlier asked someone else what they felt were (if any) the correlations between the cultural and economical implications of this particular kill, and poaching. That post was deleted in the clean-up though.

As the fishermen seemed knowledgeable on the value of the turtle and what it could be sold for, I'm sure their nets have been destroyed in the past by a turtle, and way back when it happened the first time, they learned the value of the by catch, or perhaps the knowledge has been passed down for generations (which would tie into the home remedy of turtle parts curing respiratory discomfort).

That all makes sense. I missed the clean up, so I didn't know what had been posted.

 

[balton777]

Ok, I should not have used babie turtles as examples. I should have just said a 50 year old turtle vs a 150 yeaqr old turtle. My point was that a certain artificail value has been created because of peoples personal affection towards sea turtles, and their being impressed by it's age. People just get very offended when someone kills something they find cute, majestic, etc and they loose sight of the fact that death and killing for is simply a necessary part of life.

Ok I watched the vid and it was a majestic turtle. I wish they were poisonous so maybe they would be left alone. *GRAPHIC WARNING* made it sound like it would be a lot worse than it was.

 

[dominicolas]

Dude, it has nothing to do with cute or young or old. They are ENDANGERED. Once they're gone, they don't come back. Just like Deangelo said, we as humans think we have the right to just kill anything we want. Eventually it will come back to bite us in the ass. Not in our lifetime, but if it's not controlled, it will happen. The death and killing you speak of would not be an issue if the human race weren't so completely uncontrolled in terms of population growth. The more we grow, the more we kill.

This is becoming a moot point, becasue I can't get you to understand my point, which is my fault because I'm too lazy to make my argument effectively over the internet.

Anyway, I completely get the fact that it's endangered, and I think it is important that we don't kill them, but I would have all sea turtles die before people go hungry, so it's really just a matter of values.

I think it's so goofy when people set humans apart and say stuff like "we as humans think we have the right to just kill anything we want." That aspect of our charactaristics is eactly what makes us like all other animals. The real question is what makes us so superior what we feel like we must save lesser species (not saying that we shouldn't protect endangered species, but just something to think about).

 

[balton777]

This is becoming a moot point, becasue I can't get you to understand my point, which is my fault because I'm too lazy to make my argument effectively over the internet.

Anyway, I completely get the fact that it's endangered, and I think it is important that we don't kill them, but I would have all sea turtles die before people go hungry, so it's really just a matter of values.

I think it's so goofy when people set humans apart and say stuff like "we as humans think we have the right to just kill anything we want." That aspect of our charactaristics is eactly what makes us like all other animals. The real question is what makes us so superior what we feel like we must save lesser species (not saying that we shouldn't protect endangered species, but just something to think about).

There's plenty of other things for humans to eat. Leave the turtles alone.

 

[Jeox]

Forgive my ignorence, but I've always wondered why people have never tried going to endangered sea turtle nests, taking tons of eggs, and then raising tons in captivity until they are large enough to not be food for most animals. Would that even effect the food chain? I know tons of animals eat baby sea turtle, but can't think of anything that DEPENDS on them..

As far as I understand, wouldn't that basically save the species having hundreds of adults suddenly released? I mean, from one clutch alone you could probably get TONS..

That would prevent these killing endangered species issues from even coming up..

 

[Cohazard]

dominicolas, I think you've stated your ideas clear enough for this casual conversation. I've enjoyed reading your posts and others as well.

 

[dominicolas]

There's plenty of other things for humans to eat. Leave the turtles alone.

I don't mean that the turtle itself will litterally save a starving person, but withough the money, the fisherman would be SOL and his family could potentially go hungry.

dominicolas, I think you've stated your ideas clear enough for this casual conversation. I've enjoyed reading your posts and others as well.

Thanks, I'm sure you get it, but some people are just taking all my words very litterally. I'm enjoying it though too.

 

[Modest_Man]

Forgive my ignorence, but I've always wondered why people have never tried going to endangered sea turtle nests, taking tons of eggs, and then raising tons in captivity until they are large enough to not be food for most animals. Would that even effect the food chain? I know tons of animals eat baby sea turtle, but can't think of anything that DEPENDS on them..

As far as I understand, wouldn't that basically save the species having hundreds of adults suddenly released? I mean, from one clutch alone you could probably get TONS..

That would prevent these killing endangered species issues from even coming up..

They do. But you cannot raise that many turtles to their reproductive size in captivity with limited space and resources. It takes between 25-30 years for a sea turtle to reach sexual maturity. They raid some nests and raise the turtles for a couple years (which is hard in itself as you first need to find tracks to a nest, then gather the eggs making sure to keep them all in the same position as the egg bound turtles can "suffocate" if the eggs are rotated.) Reduces the mortality from 90%+ to 50%+, as juvenile get eaten and starve just like hatchlings. Hell, we don't even know where the turtles go for their "teenage years".

Groups also have agreements with indigenous people who eat sea turtles (a significant part of coastal people's diet) where they allow the harvest of the first nests of the year, as the eggs just get dug up (aka destroyed) by following laying females. It allows for the harvest of turtles that won't/wouldn't make to maturity in the first place and keeps the people content to not harvest adults.

(I took a college course dealing specifically with sea turtles in college called Biology of Marine Reptiles when I attended the University of Hawaii.)

 

[Gr8KarmaSF]

Either way its a lose lose situation.....

 

[krzr3000]

I think it's so goofy when people set humans apart and say stuff like "we as humans think we have the right to just kill anything we want." That aspect of our charactaristics is eactly what makes us like all other animals. The real question is what makes us so superior what we feel like we must save lesser species (not saying that we shouldn't protect endangered species, but just something to think about).

It the grand scheme of things that will always spark those feelings. This isn't a single case...things like this occur everyday all over the world. Even moreso in asian countries where its culture and a conflict with our viewpoints. Throw in a little overfishing, illegal whaling, fur-trade, and a wasteful meat industry for instance and its only natural to say humans suck. You can't have a 'decimate all because we can' attitude...