going to try breeding clown loaches

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
He says he's got them in "near brackish" water. Fair enough, the rivers are going to approach the sea in the lower reaches and everybody wants to live in mangroves, but I'd hope we'd want to err on the side of caution, and by "caution" I'd think the posted & proven status quo would be a start. General ignorance can't be an excuse for or synonymous with (blindly?) making it up.
 
I never suggested that anyone keep their CL's in brackish conditions, or in a 75 gallon.




I certainly don't need any lectures on min tank sizes, or "perfect husbandry". If you haven't figured it out already this isn't my first rodeo with clown loaches.

My initial point was a simple one, how one might go about successfully breeding CL's in captivity, sans hormones, is at this time all pretty much speculation on everyone's part.
 
over the last 6 months i've been seeing a constant supply of 10"+ CL from my LFS in Canada, please go buy some so i dont need to wait 2 years for your results.

Red Arowanas are from the same river system, a ton of them are bred by the farms in the area. and yet they wouldnt breed when they are taken out of the region. can CL be simular?
 
Red arowana have been bred in numerous areas outside of the Kalimantan district. Singapore, China, and even West Java, Indonesia where your CV Maju fish came from. ;)
 
Goiing back a bit to the sexing before sale RD you bring up a good point about different conditions causing the more of one swx than another. It is common in many living things to have conditions in nature or man made effect the male female ratio. Dennis at golds told Irene rhat higher ph will increase the number of male nebulis she gets in a spawn. Therefore something could effect the cl's this way too. As far as this perfect tank condition discussion and perfect water clealiness I think we really need to look at the water most fish live in. I don't think any of us would drink their native home water yet when we put them in a tank we keep their water almost potable.sometimes with the fish we keep I think we tend to over do the cleanliness thing just my opinion though. Not saying tanks should left to be filthy just that society as a whole have become clean freaks. We are all guilty to some degree. The reason I say this is what the cl's must be living in during the dry season. That water has to be far from prestine. As for the brackish It just show how really adaptable the cl is. I do not recomend people keep them in near or full brackish tanks because I mean maybe we have just been lucky. We also have some 2 inchers in a freshwater tank so I can see who grows best or is healthier. On a whole though our cl's have been very strong fish and done alot better than some of our much more adaptable fish. This is what makes me wonder if we are over doing perfect water with them and it could be one of the downfalls on the breeding of them. What we really need is someone in Borneo to inform us on what they are eating and where they are and the water conditions just before and when they spawn.
 
Water that is far from pristine in the wild is nothing like water far from pristine in a typical aquarium. Nature utilizes anaerobic decomposition to keep ammonia and nitrates surprisingly low, and live plants are everywhere using up nutrients as well.

It may pay off to (rather that allow salt or waste to accumulate) increase conductivity, as that's most often what sets the stage for dry-stage spawning. You wouldn't necessarily need to use a sodium salt-based buffer. Pure calcium carbonate, magnesium sulfate or similar minerals could work to the same effect without needing to expose the fish to sodium salt. Natural mud wouldn't hurt, either, but not in the long haul. For a few months to get through the spawning effort the mud would help simulate nature by providing mineralization and cloudiness but eventually the mud would be saturated with waste. Fine at first to simulate evaporating conditions but eventually detrimental for obvious reasons.

Just a few thoughts. I'm no expert, just a book worm!
 
RD- agreed absolutely, and didn't mean to suggest you didn't have the background or were suggesting anything untoward. My wife and I are looking for a little place with a little yard, my quiet goal being to build the system outlined earlier for a (breeding?) colony of loaches, probably clowns. I've been saving your links and taking notes on your interpretations. Not kissing your backside, quite serious.

What I'm suggesting to our Bill is that he (re)develop/hone his skills to maintain "perfect" conditions according to the husbandry status quo (what is known to work and make/keep them healthy) before getting experimental. Keep the cart behind the horse, so to speak.

And Bill, I agree- in the absence of parasites I also find clowns are much tougher than they get credit for, and as RD said the specific natural conditions are not established or published... but that's not an excuse to "wing it".

Sincerely,
Preachy-preachy Tree-hugger.
 
thanks for the link RD about the origin of CL's.
I gues out of my school of 12,10 are from sumatra.
 
guess made my self sound a little lazy Know we have to keep certain things in line and agree that nature does this very well. Just thought maybe man was taking it beyond the nth degree and that maybe algae and a little cloudiness in the water would be more natural. As RD mentioned their water is reddy colored in nature. Andyroo I to am using this to gain info and learn from others actually really suprised how this has gone thought there was no intrest in this subject till now. I would really like to see someone here to have success at breeding cl's and not just have it a fluke or one time thing. I definately not an expierenced fish keeper as my wife and I have been at for 3 years definately just a rooky. That is why I am enjoying MFK so much I am learning so much here. I hope that all of on this thread are gaining info and ideas from others we can use and who knows sometimes a shift from the status quo brings good results. Sometimes I do get into the conspiracy theory and I apologize for that just want to gain knowledge that can help and share some if I can. A little kissing up to Rd who Find full of knowledge as he has helped on other forums on here. I am thankful to every body on this thread who is adding info and their thoughts lets keep digging the answer is out there.
 
One of the illiterate folks who wrote Tetra's "Hobbyist Guide To Catfish And Loaches" spawned clown loaches by accident. Here are the setup details the author provides in the book:

PH 6.2
DH 2.0
nitrite less than 0.05
Temp 84 to 86 degrees
Peat filtered
Three large echinodoras plants and driftwood is mentioned.
Odd diet of Tetramin garbage food, shredded beef heart, spinach, and shrimp pellets. But the plug for tetramin should be ignored. It is not suitable as a fish food even remotely.

Discus had recently spawned in there, loaches were 6" to 7" in length.

Try that.
 
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