Green Jack Dempsey Project

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Hey Jill ...just wondering your thoughts on the matter. I know its a controversy that has been discussed over and over, but why if electric blues are naturally occurring in the wild do successfully mass JD breeders never find them in their stock?

Jill, I got this one! :popcorn:

The answer to this question relates to how various tank strains of species are discovered in the first place. We get EBJDs in our tanks because we are breeding together two fish both known to carry the recessive trait for electric-blue colouration. You only get EBJDs if you have BGJDs or EBJDs to start with. The blue trait has been preserved by first finding a blue fish, then out-crossing this fish to wild-type JDs to produce carriers of this blue gene, BGJDs. In order to produce an EBJD from regular wild-type parents, a genetic mutation has to occur. This mutation will occur only randomly and in very few (perhaps only one) fry in a given spawn of hundreds, if at all. Finding this mutation can be likened to finding a needle in a haystack -- the odds are not in your favour at all. However, the mutation was found and preserved by some hobbyists in the 80s, so we now have EBJDs. Breeders today -- if they are even looking for EBJDs in their JD spawns -- may not be so fortunate.

To put this another way, expecting EBJDs to come out of two wild-type JD parents is the same as expecting two wild-type/black/striped convicts to produce pink/leucistic convicts, two green severa to produce gold or red spot fry, two silver angelfish to produce blushing, brown bristlenose plecos to produce albino, etc., etc. Without first breeding certain traits into a line, the chances of those traits just magically popping into existence are pretty remote. As an exercise, look at various wild-caught species that are for sale and see how many of them are the same as the crazy colour morphs you can get from tank-raised stock. Almost none, I'd wager. We have all these aquarium strains of fish because random genetic accidents were preserved by breeders; they are not typical for the wild-caught versions of these species. Now, some of these variants may actually occur in the wild, if the strain is strong enough, but with EBJDs especially, you don't get a strain established in the wild because any random EBJD that is produced would be lunch long before it grew to sexual maturity. It's not like there are secret colonies of EBJDs hiding in the lakes or anything.

Hope that helps clarify!
 
Hi GregTheCrazyFishGuy

Thank You for chiming in... Everything is going well here & look forward to results from the second spawn. I can already see a few different type of JD's in the spawn, but I won't post any results just yet. It's still early & some of the types are very similar in appearance @ this size. Not to mention that some will not make it.

I am also going to be selling a lot of my JD's after this spawn to make room for future projects. If you're interested please post here & let me know what you are interested in before they are all accounted for.

Thank You

-Jill :)
 
Jill, I got this one! :popcorn:

The answer to this question relates to how various tank strains of species are discovered in the first place. We get EBJDs in our tanks because we are breeding together two fish both known to carry the recessive trait for electric-blue colouration. You only get EBJDs if you have BGJDs or EBJDs to start with. The blue trait has been preserved by first finding a blue fish, then out-crossing this fish to wild-type JDs to produce carriers of this blue gene, BGJDs. In order to produce an EBJD from regular wild-type parents, a genetic mutation has to occur. This mutation will occur only randomly and in very few (perhaps only one) fry in a given spawn of hundreds, if at all. Finding this mutation can be likened to finding a needle in a haystack -- the odds are not in your favour at all. However, the mutation was found and preserved by some hobbyists in the 80s, so we now have EBJDs. Breeders today -- if they are even looking for EBJDs in their JD spawns -- may not be so fortunate.

To put this another way, expecting EBJDs to come out of two wild-type JD parents is the same as expecting two wild-type/black/striped convicts to produce pink/leucistic convicts, two green severa to produce gold or red spot fry, two silver angelfish to produce blushing, brown bristlenose plecos to produce albino, etc., etc. Without first breeding certain traits into a line, the chances of those traits just magically popping into existence are pretty remote. As an exercise, look at various wild-caught species that are for sale and see how many of them are the same as the crazy colour morphs you can get from tank-raised stock. Almost none, I'd wager. We have all these aquarium strains of fish because random genetic accidents were preserved by breeders; they are not typical for the wild-caught versions of these species. Now, some of these variants may actually occur in the wild, if the strain is strong enough, but with EBJDs especially, you don't get a strain established in the wild because any random EBJD that is produced would be lunch long before it grew to sexual maturity. It's not like there are secret colonies of EBJDs hiding in the lakes or anything.

Hope that helps clarify!

Thank You Greg :)
Your input is always welcome.

-Jill ;)
 
Thanks again Greg. That was truly insightful! I guess with all that being said, we must take time once again to thank that breeder, who first discovered that one in a million EBJD in his breeding pond!

Sent from my DROID X2 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 
Update-
Surprise spawn with pair number 4 didn't hatch first time around. Second Spawn for them was a few days ago & that spawn didn't hatch either. I'm sure they'll get it right the third time around.

Anyhow, while waiting to see that pair (4th Surprise Pair) to spawn again I have a new 5th surprise pair that has just laid eggs. I hope this fifth pairing eggs hatch. This new pair is something I didn't expect quite this early, but I welcome the results from this pairing. This new pair is a second Gen from my BGJD female & Gold male & from a pair of my BGJD's. So I await the results from this last pair.

Unfortunately I have to immediately start to thin out my older JD's to make room for my new babies. So I won't be able to offer any to members @ this time. I will have to destroy a lot of my older gene carriers tomorrow. I will only keep a few that I want to carry the bloodline.

Thank You
-Jill ;)
 
-Update
Ordered 2 new grow out tanks for my babies. So I'll be able to keep more of my gene carriers.
I have a 120 Gallon & a 240 Gallon coming next week (yeeeey). I'm still disposing of a lot of the older gene carriers that don't fancy me.

From here out I will cull my babies & only keep the best to carry the bloodline. I've established a very nice coat for the Gold & Blue Gene carriers & waiting on my EBJD's & Green JD babies to mature to establish a new & nice gen.

Also want to thank everyone interested & reading this thread.
I believe I've posted all the results from my fry that I'm going to post.
Final on this thread for me is (YES) it's possible to get the 7 types on JD's
Wild Type Jack Dempsey
Electric Blue Jack Dempsey
Gold Jack Dempsey
Green Jack Dempsey
Blue Gene Jack Dempsey
Gold Gene Jack Dempsey
and
Blue Gene Gold Gene Jack Dempsey from a single pair of parents, so long as they carry both recessive genes.

Closing my updates here...
Good luck & best wishes to anyone running this project
-Jill :)

PS- I would also like to apologize to everyone that was interested in purchasing from me, but I've decided (NOT) to ship any of my babies. I have a couple of LFS's that will give me top dollar for my babies w/out the worries of shipping.

If you want more info regarding this project please refer to my friends GregTheCrazyFishGuy 's Blog (HERE).
 
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