Smoke, you create your Payara with piranhas!? They do not attack their Payara? You have balls man! 
Explain this better please dude.
Explain this better please dude.
H. scomberoides sudden death
- Thread starter caio.sampaio
- Start date
So now whether fish live or die in captivity is a matter of opinion???? People ask opinions, and I share mine, like you share yours. I've kept Payara for many many years. Raised some of the biggest Rhaphs I've seen on this board. I thought when people started threads like this they wanted experienced opinions? Or should I just be quiet and wait for the why did they die thread?
The "foolish blanket" statement has been around for years "bud". And there's a reason it's still around. Cause year after year nobody can provide proof that the myth is just a myth. Isn't this thread about the myth?
I tried to learn, but after me and all the other hobbyists at the time that raised Payara killed so many year after year it began to seem like a losing proposition. I know I value opinions of experienced hobbysists, and I thought the person who originally started this thread might too.....
First, I wish to let you know that I do respect your opinion.
Now, I feel that the reason you're likely having such a push back about this is because of your tone. You come into these threads and type your messages in a way that read in an overtly hostile manner. This causes people who may not agree with your point to respond to you in a similar manner, which in short order will cause the thread of conversation to degenerate.
Now, I might not have nearly as many posts as you, but my join date shows that I'm no spring chicken. In fact, I've been keeping since 1998. I have kept my current scomb for eight months. It's not two years, I'll conceded that. However, he's not 'suddenly died' on me either. My first fish scomb did die. I tried keeping him in still water. He died in less than a week. The only change between then and now is that I added 4000 gph of current into the tank and took out all of my aquascaping to give much more swimming space. My current scomb has grown from four inches to eight inches and has put on a bunch of girth.
Now, you say that if these fish didn't die, there would be a bunch of big ones around. Your logic is flawed. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. I am quite sure that there are hundreds if not thousands in the US alone. This website is a powerful resource, but it is not the end all, be all of fishkeeping. There are a whole bunch of experienced old timers who don't give a darn about the internet and are not represented proportionately here.
As for the two year lifespan of H. scomberoides, I don't consider that to be a concern or knock against the fish. These fish are described in scientific literature as reaching a maximum of 40 centimeters. As you well know, 12 inches is a hair over 30 centimeters. If a 40 cm fish is the maximum size that you can expect a member of this species to achieve, then a 30 cm fish would seem to be fairly near the center of a Gaussian bell of the typical adult sizes of these fish. I can't find any properly written articles on the lifespan of H. scomberoides, so I can't hazard a guess on how old the fish live in the wild, but it strikes me as likely that a 30 cm or 12 inch fish is who dies after two years has probably lived its natural lifespan and has died a natural death.
Once again, in my experience, I've seen no empirical evidence to support the idea that payara die. There are enough being kept successfully for years at a time for me to consider their death to generally be the fault of keepers or that they have died a natural death at the end of a short lifespan. All I can see from the people who support the sudden death idea is ranting tirades from individuals who, to be honest, just seem quite jaded.
OK. Upon revisiting this thread, I fear that as I was distracted, my reply to DB was not as articulate as it should have been given the sensative nature of the discussion.
DB, you have a valid point that bears discussion and we could end up learning something new. I don't have a problem with the points you're attempting to discuss. I do however have a problem with the argumentative manner in which you present your data.
DB, you have a valid point that bears discussion and we could end up learning something new. I don't have a problem with the points you're attempting to discuss. I do however have a problem with the argumentative manner in which you present your data.
To those who have had them die at the aforementioned "max" size around 12", did you just wake up to them dead one day, or were there any signs they were getting sick/weak beforehand? I'm just curious to know if they just drop dead or if they go on one of their hunger strikes a few days before and then die? I've never owned a scomb, so it'd be interesting to know if the people who have had them die at 2 years have seen them display the same behavior before dying. Any thoughts?
I do not believe in nature live only two years, because they are very large in nature, getting to have more than one meter.
Unless they have rapid growth as a armatus, and it does not seem to happen, right?
Please guys, keep calm.
Unless they have rapid growth as a armatus, and it does not seem to happen, right?
Please guys, keep calm.
DB Junkie, what's your opinions about Raphs? Are less sensitive than scombs? When the fishery reopened in March I'll try to capture a raphiodon, they abound in my area. If you can do some kind of comparison between the scombs and raphs I thank you very much! 
The largest size I've been able to find for a scomb collected in the wild is 40 cm. Most people who mention sudden death for scombs talk about them kicking the bucket at 30cm or so at about two years. Seems like a reasonable correlation to adult size and natural life span to me, but I have to empirical data to support my opinion on this.
