Healing open wounds
- Thread starter clm08k
- Start date
Only if it's getting to the point of no return. The fish is just deteriorating (not eating, more wounds etc) or I can't get any meds to help the fish. Live in remote area. Also it has to be proven tb as well.
But as of now it seems to improving.
thank you. It has been really challenging emotionally and financially(with all the new equipment, meds, water changes). I love that ornate though. His name is Benny and he is all that and a bag of chips! I don't want to euthanize unless he is extremely suffering or gets really bad. He means too much to me. If something bad did happen, I don't know if I would name another Ornate after him or not...don't know if it would be the same....cause it would be a different fish, ya know.
Although told my dad about the possibility of TB in the main tank. He didn't take it well and wanted to get rid of the tank(i dont think that means buy a new one though hahah. bigger tank is still not an option while I live with them ) Just want to get a healthy setup going again!
I think it's also harder cause he is my first poly and only poly.
Im with you with that, took me awhile and alot of convincing before letting go my first polys.
Clm08k i dont want you to have to do that and should have been more clear with my question. was mainly asking kno4te only because of the horror story that the other member told us all about. Im more worried about you catching something. But kno4te is 1000% correct he improving and we dont even know if it is tb. Im sorry for even making you think of euthanasia i should have sent him a pm instead of posting to the thread
@Clmk08..... Im sorry... it was not meant at scaring you.... I brought up my story in case it helped to change the medication to treat your poly.
Don't euthanaze him as he is not getting worse.... I wouldnt....
Also remember not every human's immune system is the same so it doesnt mean its going to happen to you
I had a big piece of wood fall on my leg and cause a deep cut and that happened
My son worked in my tank and nothing happened to him
So just hang in there and unless he really gets bad there is hope
I have done some reading and apparently kanamycin can work
However a very intersting thing I read in more than one article was that garlic is apperently a great fighter of TB
They mentioned soaking the food in Seachem garlic guard and I know you can also put some in the water
As for yourself unless you have deep cuts or sores on your hands you should be fine
Desinfect your hands with bleach after handling your tank
As for your main tank and everythhing else, as has been mentioned clean with bleach and then soak in Seachem Prime to neutralize it and you will be fine
I have my super red arowana and my male stingray as well as other fish in the tank where this all happened and all my fish are fine
Just a bit of reading which i have found for those that have taken an interest
Identification:
If staining for identification, Mycobacteria stain bright pink against a blue background (as these bacterium are acid fast).
However, most aquarium fish keepers do not have the ability to grow cultures or make slides; so the symptoms of Fish TB are usually wasting away, lesions on the fish' body, loss of scales and/or coloration, and especially skeletal deformities such as curved spines.
The fish in the picture above (please click to enlarge) displays classic symptoms of Fish TB in finage, skeletal deformity, and wasting to the point light can slightly penetrate her abdomen as seen in the light spot.
From Testing for "Fish TB"; AquariaCentral
Mycobacterium triplex can only be identified by 16S rDNA sequencing, so positive identification is difficult.
Treatment:
Mycobacterium marinum
Time of Treatment is VERY long and is generally administered for at least three months.
A hospital tank treatment is advised for fish TB since this generally is a very long treatment regimen and a three month treatment of ANY antibiotic can result in serious damage to your aquarium bio filter.
The three most proven antibiotic methods, which can and should be used in a combination of two of these drugs along with the other described alternative treatments:
*Kanamycin (Kanaplex)
*Neomycin
*Isoniazid (from Aquarium Medications Part 2)
A forth consideration, albeit less field tested (it does show lab results though) is Usnea, which from my experience should only be administered in a "Fish Bath" form for 30 minutes. Methylene Blue should also be used in this bath, but no other antibiotics should be used in this bath with Usena.
These baths can be rotated; meaning one bath with Usena and Methylene Blue and the next bath with MB along with one or two of the other antibiotics, then back to the Usnea
Usnea is best as a used as a bath ALONG with an in tank treatment with one of the first three noted medications (or better hospital tank).
Further Information: Organic Fish Treatments; Usnea
A fifth consideration is Allicin, the active ingredient in Garlic. Mycobacterium marinum) has been demonstrated to be effectively treated with Allicin, at least in vitro.
SeaChem Garlic Guard can be used in a fish food slurry preparation and mixed with both Neomycin and Kanamycin for improving the potential effectiveness of tuberculosis treatment.
See: Fish Nutrition; Garlic
ISONIAZID 300 mg:
[URL='http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/aquatronicsisonex.jpg']
ABOUT/USE: Treatment for tuberculosis.
Symptoms include: the fish have been sick for several months, the fish is lethargic, anorexic, has fin or scale loss and a sunken stomach.
Isoniazid Can be combined with Kanamycin or Neomycin.
As noted, Isoniazid is used alone or can be used with other drugs to treat tuberculosis (TB) and to prevent it in fish that have had contact with tuberculosis bacteria.
It eliminates ONLY ACTIVE (growing) bacteria.
Since the bacteria may exist in a resting (nongrowing) state for long periods, therapy with isoniazid (and other antituberculosis drugs) MUST be continued for a long time (usually 6-12 months) often making TB treatments in aquariums impractical due to costs, time, and damage to the aquatic environment (I strongly recommend using a quarantine tank).
Unfortunately, Isoniazid has become very difficult to obtain since the premier aquarium medications company, "Aquatronics" went out of business due to the declining business climate in the aquarium industry.
Neomycin is an alternative for Mycobacterium tuberculosis, as well Kanamycin is considered a second line drug for Mycobacterium tuberculosis (not a first line since many strains of Mycobacterium tuberculosis are resistant to Kanamycin) An organic alternative is Usnea, which has shown very good lab results in treating the Mycobacterium tuberculosis.
For more about Usnea, please see this Aquarium Answers article:
USNEA; USING USNIC ACID AS A FISH REMEDY
Note: Aquatic tuberculosis can be very difficult to treat (in fact nearly impossible). Also note that this is caused by a very similar bacterium in human TB, but is not the same, and the only danger to humans is to an open wound exposed to the bacterium, which then only causes a localized rash.
Further Reference about TB in Fish:
TB in Fish, Mycobacterium Tuberculosis
DOSAGE: 1 tablet per 20 gallons, every other day for 14- 30 days
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2012/04/tb-in-fish-mycobacterium[/URL]
If staining for identification, Mycobacteria stain bright pink against a blue background (as these bacterium are acid fast).
However, most aquarium fish keepers do not have the ability to grow cultures or make slides; so the symptoms of Fish TB are usually wasting away, lesions on the fish' body, loss of scales and/or coloration, and especially skeletal deformities such as curved spines.
The fish in the picture above (please click to enlarge) displays classic symptoms of Fish TB in finage, skeletal deformity, and wasting to the point light can slightly penetrate her abdomen as seen in the light spot.
From Testing for "Fish TB"; AquariaCentral
Mycobacterium triplex can only be identified by 16S rDNA sequencing, so positive identification is difficult.
Treatment:
Mycobacterium marinum
Time of Treatment is VERY long and is generally administered for at least three months.
A hospital tank treatment is advised for fish TB since this generally is a very long treatment regimen and a three month treatment of ANY antibiotic can result in serious damage to your aquarium bio filter.
The three most proven antibiotic methods, which can and should be used in a combination of two of these drugs along with the other described alternative treatments:
*Kanamycin (Kanaplex)
*Neomycin
*Isoniazid (from Aquarium Medications Part 2)
A forth consideration, albeit less field tested (it does show lab results though) is Usnea, which from my experience should only be administered in a "Fish Bath" form for 30 minutes. Methylene Blue should also be used in this bath, but no other antibiotics should be used in this bath with Usena.
These baths can be rotated; meaning one bath with Usena and Methylene Blue and the next bath with MB along with one or two of the other antibiotics, then back to the Usnea
Usnea is best as a used as a bath ALONG with an in tank treatment with one of the first three noted medications (or better hospital tank).
Further Information: Organic Fish Treatments; Usnea
A fifth consideration is Allicin, the active ingredient in Garlic. Mycobacterium marinum) has been demonstrated to be effectively treated with Allicin, at least in vitro.
SeaChem Garlic Guard can be used in a fish food slurry preparation and mixed with both Neomycin and Kanamycin for improving the potential effectiveness of tuberculosis treatment.
See: Fish Nutrition; Garlic
ISONIAZID 300 mg:
[URL='http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/images/graphics/aquatronicsisonex.jpg']
Symptoms include: the fish have been sick for several months, the fish is lethargic, anorexic, has fin or scale loss and a sunken stomach.
Isoniazid Can be combined with Kanamycin or Neomycin.
As noted, Isoniazid is used alone or can be used with other drugs to treat tuberculosis (TB) and to prevent it in fish that have had contact with tuberculosis bacteria.
It eliminates ONLY ACTIVE (growing) bacteria.
Since the bacteria may exist in a resting (nongrowing) state for long periods, therapy with isoniazid (and other antituberculosis drugs) MUST be continued for a long time (usually 6-12 months) often making TB treatments in aquariums impractical due to costs, time, and damage to the aquatic environment (I strongly recommend using a quarantine tank).
Unfortunately, Isoniazid has become very difficult to obtain since the premier aquarium medications company, "Aquatronics" went out of business due to the declining business climate in the aquarium industry.
Neomycin is an alternative for Mycobacterium tuberculosis, as well Kanamycin is considered a second line drug for Mycobacterium tuberculosis (not a first line since many strains of Mycobacterium tuberculosis are resistant to Kanamycin) An organic alternative is Usnea, which has shown very good lab results in treating the Mycobacterium tuberculosis.
For more about Usnea, please see this Aquarium Answers article:
USNEA; USING USNIC ACID AS A FISH REMEDY
Note: Aquatic tuberculosis can be very difficult to treat (in fact nearly impossible). Also note that this is caused by a very similar bacterium in human TB, but is not the same, and the only danger to humans is to an open wound exposed to the bacterium, which then only causes a localized rash.
Further Reference about TB in Fish:
TB in Fish, Mycobacterium Tuberculosis
DOSAGE: 1 tablet per 20 gallons, every other day for 14- 30 days
www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2012/04/tb-in-fish-mycobacterium[/URL]
I use garlic guard at least once a week and if i find nice big garlic cloves that i can put in the tank i do and my flagtail, clown loaches and severums love it
I even found my stingray nibbling on it
It is excellent as a preventative for parasites, worms, etc
