Herichthys carpintis "Vontehillo" info?

[cchhcc]

If I made personal attacks, I apologize, but I don't remember making any. In fact, my motives and those with similar opinions are the ones under personal attack. My feelings will recover though. ; )

I refer everyone to the widebar dat thread where the Mods did a good job of explaining that DERAILMENT is a chief violation that result in many negative comments being deleted, NOT THE CONTENT of those comments. The Mods in no way wanted to muzzle any feedback about the vendor in question, but they did want it presented properly.

So, since the OP initiated this conversation, I suggest we keep comments to the origin and description of the Vontehillo fish (and civil at that) and eliminate any supposition about the motives, imaginary or otherwise, of some of the posters.

 

[jgentry]

I agree. Don shouldn't have to come here "to answer questions". He's been in the hobby for many more years than most. I'm certain that if invited he would be happy to help educate folks on the collection locale.

Let's keep it friendly. We're all here to enjoy the hobby and learn. Up until a few years back no one was talking about the Parachromis collected in La Cieba. Benefit of the doubt on the Carpinte and hopefully a dose of education from the guy who collected it.

Peace.

Mo

I hope your advice is taken but I doubt it will be. Unfortunately a few members have drawn lines in the sand and you have 2 sides that have to have a thread like this going at all times now. It is quickly making the MFK SA/CA forum a rather unpleasent place to be.

Very nice Carpintis OP. I have no idea about the collection of this fish and at this point really couldn't care. It's a nice fish no matter what it is.

 

[flowerpower]

I'm not taking any sides but, from what I see constantly is every fish IRA post it seems to bring more negative attention then any other fish sold by any other vendor, think about it , The Godmani, The Boucorti, The Jack dempseys, The piebald catemaco, The conkelii Catemaco, yellow labridens, ETC. the list goes on , nobody or other Vendor faces this much scrutiny about his fish, and it's from Three members constantly cchhcc, reverse, dogowar. Why does every fish he sells raise question when the quality is next none and he sells fish for an affordable price which is good for all of us. Ira is one of the few vendors who doesn't keep wild pairs and F1 us to death for wild prices, because they can't collect on a scale that DCT can. It's just ludacris if you ask me

Well said!
This is the real issue and the reason I refrain from engaging in these discussions. If you scrutinize any one vendor for long enough (as these three members have done) you'll eventually find your rallying point from which you can smear and discredit that person. Other vendors on this forum have been selling w/c fish on their lists for years with no collection point listed whatsoever. W/c festae, umbees, wavrini, stendachneri, sagittae..... to name a few. I have some of these fish in my tanks now and, come to think of it, where the hell did they come from. Seriously!, where? I'm sure that, if I scrutinized each and every one of them I would eventually reveal some inconsistencies.
But then, there's the issue of ethics.....
If I buy a 4-5" fish and specify a particular sex, I should get the male or female that I requested. Especially if I'm paying an exorbitant price for that fish. How many people have "wild" female umbees?? Shucks, who bought more than 3 and received females only? And you probably asked for at last one male, didn't you? If one cannot sex a 5" umbee in a tank full of conspecifics, well....
Who has payed for a 3.5" fish only to receive a fish that was 1" smaller than expected?
Finally, who's tolerated this abuse over and over again for lack of any other options or alternatives. If one guy has the fish you want, you buy. If two guys have it, you choose.
We should demand more from all of our vendors, not just the ones you single out. That's dirty politics! It's malicious and counterproductive.
In the end, Ira's just another vendor. His presence here offers many of us an alternative and hopefully some healthy competition will prompt the other vendors here who deal with CA/SA cichlids to take heed.

 

[Citrinellus]

After 14 pages, I'm just going to e-mail Don. See if he can shed some light on where vontehillo is...

 

[Aquamojo]

They are pretty fish.

I've often wondered if the pearl scaling on the fish were or could be indicative of the variation of the carrpinte. I know to some degree various species will have larger or brighter pearling. But primarily around the operculum...you can see a difference. I'm going to do some additional research on that now that it's front of mind.

The only real difference I have seen with the various Carpinte fish was with the Rio Salto that I am now keeping. The body shape is different than most.

The other difference I've seen is with the "Escondido". in addition to a brighter pattern their body shape tends to be much higher bodied. I compared a photo of my large adult male with that of another friend of mine of similar size.

Here's my buddy Kevin's:

Here's my guy:

Both Escondido...and similar body shape. But take a look at the markings on the operculum. Really much different. Wonder if there is any commonality?

 

[cchhcc]

Thanks Citrinellus!

Flower, I think you make a good point. Yes, all vendors should come under equal scrutiny. Perhaps it would be best done so in another thread, but the wide-bar dat issue in the buy/sell section could've been avoided with stronger feedback.

Don't assume that collection locales, etc. haven't being verified with other vendors though.

 

[dogofwar]

well said, jd

I'll wait to hear the sellers feedback before further comment

Matt

I hope your advice is taken but I doubt it will be. Unfortunately a few members have drawn lines in the sand and you have 2 sides that have to have a thread like this going at all times now. It is quickly making the MFK SA/CA forum a rather unpleasent place to be.

Very nice Carpintis OP. I have no idea about the collection of this fish and at this point really couldn't care. It's a nice fish no matter what it is.

 

[armac]

They are pretty fish.

 

[cchhcc]

I'd be happy to hear we've got access to a legitimately new race of a cool fish from a distinct collection site.

 

[Modest_Man]

The fish is a very nice looking Carpinte variant. I sent some of the photos to Juan Miguel Artigas Azas, owner of the CRC and arguably one of the world authorities on the ednemic fish species of Mexico...and primarily the Hericthys complex. I asked if he was familiar with the fish or the collection locale. He was not aware of either. I think the suggestion of asking Don is a good idea. Perhaps he can clear up any questions folks have on this very nice looking Carpinte.

This right here raises large red flags for me; more than any other statement in this whole thread. Juan is THE Herichthys expert.

If you want to see some of his scientific journal articles on cichlids click HERE. Unfortunately most are in Spanish, as he lives in Mexico (where this fish came from?).

Bio on Juan, with articles.

If he hasn't heard of this fish and/or collection point...