How Important Is Bio Media?

[Lupin]

Folks, keep this on topic and stop the personal attacks. Thanks.

 

[Crispy]

Great thread guys...some great points being made here.

Nutcase> I have a very heavily stocked 130 with a ton of decor. It's filtered by 2x AC110s (2 sponges in each) and one AC802 powerhead with quickchange filter (all sponge). Even with my messy and big fish, my tank is beautifully clean and clear. I do 2x 30-40% water changes weekly. I have many "scaleless" cats and loaches, 15" silver aro (notorious for needing clean water), and even 3 plecos! They get veggies, fish fillets, and various pelleted foods (all of which are messy). I also have a good amount of water lettuce on the top of the water to do a bit of filtering for me also. This tank has been setup for 20 months now and my frontosas and former geos were all breeding like crazy. I clean one of the two ACs every 3 weeks and the quickchange filter gets cleaned weekly. Seems to be perfect filtration/maintenace for my heavy bioload. I totally agree with you when you say all this bio-media is overrated and many people are being misled into overfiltering their tanks to make up for their ignorance. I guess if I didn't want to do the twice weekly water changes, I could have a bit more filtration, but this has been working perfectly for me for 15 years with big messy cichlids. Just my $0.02 guys, and what has worked wonderfully for me.

Pic is a bit old, but you'll get the idea of my water lettuce and loads of decor.

PS, don't forget to check my sig and see all the fish currently thriving in this tank. None under 4".

 

[Dragoner]

Nice one... What does Sera have to say for Siporax?

 

[Jgray152]

Overkill pfft tell me whats the disadvantage of have extra water volume a to much bio ...

As compared to just enough with a tiny sump that will overflow in a power outage

no no no no. This is NOT what we are trying to tell people. If you think using the "correct" sized sump mean "overflow" during a power outage than you are thinking wrong. *No personal attacks here*

Dimensions of the sump are WAY more important than knowing how many gallons it can hold. If you figure for a max of 1" drop in the main tank which say is 72 x 24 x 24 (180 Gallon), that equals out to be 7.5 gallon of water.

You NEED to figure that amount of water into your sump design. IF you are going to have 8" of water in the sump while it running you need to know if that sump will hold an extra 7.5 gallons.

10" in a sump 48 x 12 x 16 (40 Gallon) is different than in a 36 x 18 x16 (40 Gallon).

48 x 12 x 16 (39.1 Actual Gallons) @ 10" = 24.93 Gallons (running) + 7.5 = 32.43 Gallons. (6.07 " from top of sump. 15.31 Gallons ) (Sump Off)
36 x 18 x 16 (44.2 Actual gallons) @ 10" = 28.05 Gallons (running) + 7.5 = 35.55 Gallons. (3.33" from top of sump 9.34 Gallons) (Sump off)

The top 40 gallon sump is more safe and I would prefer over the bottom 40 gallon sump. You can see how the dimensions are more important. These sumps can hold more than 20-40 liters (5.27 - 10.55 gallons) of media as well. Without water they can hold over 80 liters but your asking for an overflow there.

Personally, why would you need to go any bigger than a 40 gallon sump on a 180 gallon? I don't know why, you are already over kill for media. You can actually go down to a 30 gallon (30 x 12 x 20)

30 x 12 x 20 @ 10" = 15.58 Gallons + 7.5 Gallons = 23.08 Gallons (5.2" from surface or 8 gallons)

You could hold 10-15 liters (2.63-3.95 gallons) - in a 30 gallon sump just fine and be fine for a 180 gallon

I would prefer the "correct" sized sump vs overkill sump from assumptions

 

[Jgray152]

These sumps can hold more than 20-40 liters (5.27 - 10.55 gallons) of media as well.

Quick Correction
The top sump can hold 20-40 liters (5.27 - 10.55 gallons) of media while the bottom sump can hold 20-30 liters (5.27 - 7.91 Gallons)

I know I have not included sponges but those will be of different sizes so its hard to say how much they will take up in a certain sized sump (L * W * H / 231) gives you the solid mass volume of that size sponge)

I see all to often 75-80 gallons sump used for a 180 gallon tank. WAAAYY to big. I know some want to increase their system volume but you are NOT going to increase it by a huge amount, not 75-80 gallons anyways. Maybe 20-40 gallons safely. How will this small amount REALLY effect the system for toxin dilution? Probably not as much as you would think using such a large sump. Just means you have to do a larger water change.

48 x 12 x 16 (39.1 Actual Gallons) @ 10" = 24.93 Gallons (running) + 7.5 = 32.43 Gallons. (6.07 " from top of sump. 15.31 Gallons ) (Sump Off) 20 liters = 3.95" from the surface
36 x 18 x 16 (44.2 Actual gallons) @ 10" = 28.05 Gallons (running) + 7.5 = 35.55 Gallons. (3.33" from top of sump 9.34 Gallons) (Sump off) 20 liters = 1.45" from the surface

 

[Jgray152]

my sumps done properly yet it will over flow if im not home to turn the taps off because i have 40 mm overflows on a 75 with a 20 sumpwith over a acre of surface area hows that for overkill lol the size of the return pump means there not enough space left for the 2 inch of water outta the 75

I would read my posts above so you can properly pick out a sump.. PM me if you want some help with the calculations since I did not really post any.

7.5 gallons from your main tank into your sump. (48 x 18 x 2 / 231)

Standard 20 Gallon sumps
30 x 12 x 12 = 18.3 Gal. Actual Volume
24 x 12 x 16 = 19.5 Gal. Actual volume

7.5 Gal in a;
24 x 12 x 16 = 6"
30 x 12 x 12 = 5"

When your filter is running you should have at least 7" or more for safety if your sump is one of the two dimensions above.

All my explanation are figuring for a standard sump design and nothing fancy or too technical. MEchanical filter media on one side with bio media in the middle or mechanical media on the top dripping on to the bio media.

The top sump can hold 20-40 liters (5.27 - 10.55 gallons) of media while the bottom sump can hold 20-30 liters (5.27 - 7.91 Gallons)

I know I have not included sponges but those will be of different sizes so its hard to say how much they will take up in a certain sized sump (L * W * H / 231) gives you the solid mass volume of that size sponge)

I adding mechanical media I would say the bottom sump(36x18x16) would hold about 15-20 liters and the top sump(48x12x16) 20-30 liters.

 

[Jgray152]

Picture it this way, an AC110 filled to specs holds LESS THAN 1 LITER OF "Bio" MEDIA! If some are filtering a 240 gallon tank with 2 AC110s just fine with perfect water parameters, 20-30 liters of media in a sump is WAAAAAYY over kill.

I do not count the sponge for bacteria colonization because you clean them regularly.

 

[vfc]

To summarize:
- Use enough bio-media to maintain 0 ammonia/nitrite
- Waste money buying excessive bio-media
- Buy the correct amount of bio-media and send checks to the lfs and manufacturer.

Isn't marketing great: convince the weak minded they need something they don't and profit by it.

 

[ward1066]

Well then you are using your “Bio Media” as “Mechanical Media”… The problem I see with this is “Bio Media” is not designed to be cleaned easily and physically broken down waste in Bio Media leads to clogged pores thus making the “Bio Media” less effective.

Maybe I am, Like I said earlier, its probably fine to run only small filters, sponges , ac 110s if you dont mind cleaning your filters every couple of weeks. I prefer very large filters with lower maintence. as far as clogging biomedia, it would be very difficult if not impossible to clog 10 gallons of bioballs. the 2180 uses bio rings on the bottom tray as a mechanical filter and it is basically small ceramic rings, never clogs.

 

[Noto]

A little clarification here: There's "clogging" of mechanical media which leads to water bypass, and there's "clogging" of biomedia which leads to reduction of useable surface area, even if there is no bypass on a visible scale. If the pores and pits on the ceramic media are full of gunk, they are not supporting aerobic bacteria and so are of much reduced use as bio media.