How Important Is Bio Media?
- Thread starter Toby_H
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tcarswell;3387252; said:
I strongly suggest keeping the sponge on top, as this has several positive effects
Keep in mind I do not use charcoal, Purigen or other porous materials in my Aqua Clears (or elsewhere). I do acknowledge that waste can/will get into the pores and clog them rendering such porous materials less effective
Youll have to weigh the pros and cons of each approach and decide which works best for your desired media combination but for anyone having trouble with bypass in an Aqua Clear HOB, I do suggest at least trying it with the sponge on top
Crispy;3387402; said:
Good to see others with similar experiences to me share their set ups
The difficulty here is those who have grossly overkill amounts of Bio Media tend to believe they have jest enough because their system works great What I am suggesting is the vast majority of those people can drastically reduce their Bio Media and their system will work just as well
Im willing to bet the vast majority of the people who run one HOB and one Canister could turn their canister off and after 2 days their Bio Filtration will be just as adequate as it was with the canister which would thus verify the canister is providing no more filtration than a powerhead it just cost a ton more
Jgray
I am in no way suggestion you are wrong with any of your sump recommendations/thoughts above. It seems to me you have a very realistic perspective of sump filtration The single aspect I would like to offer a different view point on is sump size
As you descried, a 40 gal sump will not contain 40 gallons of water. Sumps need to be kept several inches below the top to allow the main tank to drop down a bit (1 being typical) when the pump is turned off and this not overflow the bottom tank
Youve all been reading my thoughts about the lack of importance of Bio Media and personally I wouldnt waste any of my sump space with Bio Media Instead I would use my space to set up progressive steps of finer and finer Mechanical Media (primarily sponges) By using large sponges they can be effective for longer times between cleanings without producing bypass.
Although I completely confess that without having your overflow/intake set up to collect waste/debris from the bottom of the tank then using a sump for mechanical filtration is very inefficient. I think far more sump users should be far more creative with their overflows/intakes...
Also providing a chamber for heaters, UV or any other equipment that can be housed in the sump as well as a refugium.
I do see an advantage of the extra volume While you may not practically see the advantage of adding 10 gal to the sump, we can determine with mathematics that every little bit helps Also keep in mind that adding 20 gal to a 200 gal system is adding 10% which is far more than a drop in a bucket.
Thus, at the end of this point, I do not see massive sumps as required or critical at all I do see added value to a larger volume sump if it can practically be added Although I do feel the money spent on Bio Media filling that extra volume would have been better spent on well, anything actually
ward1066;3388038; said:
I feel youve missed several points Ive made in direct response to some of your previous posts or maybe we simply do not agree
Using Bio Media to capture waste/debris clogs the pores in the Bio Media making it less effective. If you feel Bio Media adds value to your system, then why use it in a way that minimizes its usefulness? If you feel your system needs Mechanical Media, then why not use Mechanical Media that is easy to clean use whatever you like, but using it as it is designed to be used will be far more efficient.
If you going months and months without cleaning whatever media you use to trap waste/debris, you are doing your system a disservice It seems FAR more logical to me to use sponges that are quick and easy to clean, to remove waste/debris and clean it often. This offers efficient filtration with minimal financial investment and with a simple level of maintenance
Your concept of using excessive Bio Media for removing waste/debris is far less effective (Bio Medias Bio capacity is greatly reduced, Bio Media will allow tons of bypass) Requires no less maintenance (Bio Media is much more difficult to clean) Costs a ton more to set up ...And simply put, doesn't work nearly as well...
So Ward, feel absolutely free to filter your tank however you choose and do so knowing you are doing so free of any judgment from me. But be aware of the many Cons that your approach has and if you recommend others follow your approach please do so including this great list of Cons
Noto;3388316; said:
Exactly!!!
So if you are filling your tank with 10 liters of Bio Media and are using it as Mechanical Media regardless of what you think/want/wish, it will clog (clog = reduced available surface area) therefore you will only have the performance level of 5 liters of Bio Media Very possibly far less...
So why not only use 5 liters of Bio Media and use the other 5 liters of space for mechanical filtration that is practical to clean
Of course there is more than one way to skin a cat but not every way is equal in efficiency, practicality, financial investment nor in final result
As Ive said multiple times in this thread and elsewhere We all have the right/freedom to filter our tanks as we wish But we should not mislead new hobbyists into believing they have to make the same choices we do. Answer their questions honestly and if you dont honestly know how to do that let someone who does answer their question ..
ward1066;3388486; said:
That is completely not true Ward... you are missing the point completely...
"Bio Media's" big selling point is due to it's porous construction, it has a very high amount of surface area...
Using it as "Mechanical Filtration" clogs these pores drastically reducing it's surface area... making it far less effective as "Bio Media"...
Water will continue to flow around the nugets, it will simply do so coming in contact with waste filled pores as opposed to bacteria filled pores... making it useless as filtration...
Your filters need to be cleaned MUCH more frequently than you choose to clean them and they are adding waste to your system for the vaste majority of time they are in place...
I mean you no offense... But I honetly think you have a horrible approach at filtration. I say this based on the conclusion of many of your posts here as well as recent recommendations I've seen you make to others in other threads. I'm not saying this to 'attack' or in any way be rude... I'm saying so to encourage you to reevaluate some of your ideas and to minimize your suggestions to others until you do...
nc_nutcase;3388507; said:
have you ever used a canister filter? I dont feel that I am giving bad advise. When I started keeping africans over 15 years ago I used to jack around with my canisters at least monthly and I think it did more harm than good. Most people you talk to or at least I have talked to, maybe rinse their efimech every 6 months if even that. efi mech is basically biomedia as is everything inside the canister. Some people dont even run sponges or prefilter pads in them and they still work great. As long as you do regular water changes, there is no way getting around that, you will be fine. Water changes remove more than just nitrates, they remove liquified fish waste,,, think urine. there are protiens and all kinds of stuff in fish water. Even the finest floss wont remove that. Ill take a canister filled with ceramic rings over one filled with sponges, filter floss any day.I bet if you ask around, you will find there are a lot of canister users that dont mess with them every month. maybe we should start a poll
I wasted money buying CellPore. CellPore is nothing more than a sponge dipped in concrete. I have it in three XP canisters, and after a year, the cubes are covered in silt. I can't just squeeze the gunk out of the pores like I can with a sponge. I could have saved money if I filled another tray with sponges; but I fell for the marketing hype (temporary insanity). I highly suspect that the person who posted the merits of CellPore on the forum worked for the company.
Same with Matrix, most of the pores are plugged with silt.
I think the best bio-media I own is the holey rock I have in the tank.
BTW - I had a 26G tank with no tank contents other than an inch of gravel. It supported five 3-5" cichlids for months with bi-weekly 50% WCs and only a power head for filtration/circulation. Ammonia/nitrites 0 the entire time.
Same with Matrix, most of the pores are plugged with silt.
I think the best bio-media I own is the holey rock I have in the tank.
BTW - I had a 26G tank with no tank contents other than an inch of gravel. It supported five 3-5" cichlids for months with bi-weekly 50% WCs and only a power head for filtration/circulation. Ammonia/nitrites 0 the entire time.
solid wastes will liquify and thats where the biological media takes over, neutralizing the toxins. mechanical filtration removes the solids only and the hobbiest removes before they become liquidified and overtax the biological filtration. but if you have massive amounts of biological your system is never overtaxed. thats why wet drys are so good and users hardly ever have to clean the biomedia.the waste gets liquified before it has a chance to clog and the massive BB can deal with the toxins... people get into trouble when there isnt enough biological to deal with the toxins (maybe they forget a cleaning or accidently crash their system, dead fish etc). thats why I would always suggest more biomedia over mechanical because most people forget or get lazy and run into trouble. If you are diligent and are constantly removing the waste before it has a chance to liquify then your setup will be fine, but if your really overstocked like i am its best to be safe. I let the bacteria do the work for me.
This is what I described in my posts. Using the dimensions of the sump instead of the volume rating you can figure out how many inches of water you want to keep your sump at and at the same time figure out how many inches you need in that sump to support the volume of water which would drain from the tank. You can also figure out roughly how much volume your media takes up so you can count that in as well.
The thing about adding more volume with sumps are that when you add an additional 40 gallons with the sump, and you have a 180 gallon tank, changing 50% of the aquarium water will not change 50% of the system volume. This may be a small point to make but you would in theory need to change more than 50% of the water now.
If you are already changing the water weekly I would not worry about increasing the volume that much unless you are overstocked.
I have never used the ceramic mechanical media but I personally like stepped filtration with sponges. 10-15ppi 1st, and then 20 ppi second and 100 micron third. Right now I use just a coarse sponge.
Depending on the filter, if your mechanical media cloges, you may not get bypass. Most canisters will to a point while some don't at all and the flow just gets more and more reduced.
I clean my canister filter out once every 6 months or so. Not saying its a good thing since its not.
First of all I would like to say this thread has opened my eyes quite a bit to filtration.It seems there are two schools of thought when it comes to this topic.Nc nutcase I've read many a post by you & you have quite a bit of experience.You are simply telling us about it.I consider it a hypothesis.It obviously works & works well for you.I totally get your method.
Ward 1066 you have 15 years of fish keeping experience.You use a different method than Nc nutcase all though it is more expansive & expensive it too obviously works & works well.
My point is this both methods seem to be sound.I don't think there is any one rite way to filter your aquarium just cheeper methods & more expensive methods.
I do however think that bio media is used by corporations to trick us into buying a product that we simply don't need the way they try to push.We do need our bio media just not 100$ worth every two weeks.I believe much of the bio media we use can be cleaned & reused.
Keep your eyes open & your mind.Do your research & you will be less likely taken to the cleaners by these corporations.
Ward 1066 you have 15 years of fish keeping experience.You use a different method than Nc nutcase all though it is more expansive & expensive it too obviously works & works well.
My point is this both methods seem to be sound.I don't think there is any one rite way to filter your aquarium just cheeper methods & more expensive methods.
I do however think that bio media is used by corporations to trick us into buying a product that we simply don't need the way they try to push.We do need our bio media just not 100$ worth every two weeks.I believe much of the bio media we use can be cleaned & reused.
Keep your eyes open & your mind.Do your research & you will be less likely taken to the cleaners by these corporations.
you must be joking. thats not a sump its a second display tank.Jgray152;3384533; said:
your sump only needs to be big enough to hold the equipment you use and so you dont have to top off too frequently. even with a fuge having more then 40 gallons is ridiculous(assuming you sump is a good shape) unless your in very large reef tanks
