How to make a sand vacuum?

[itrebebag99]

I tried making a sand vacuum, using a length of plastic hose and a bottle with the bottom cut off, but the hose I used was too thick, and the increase suction made suck up sand. What is the correct ratio for the diameter of bottle to diameter of hose in order for the vacuum to suck up fish waste, but not sand?

 

[tlindsey]

I tried making a sand vacuum, using a length of plastic hose and a bottle with the bottom cut off, but the hose I used was too thick, and the increase suction made suck up sand. What is the correct ratio for the diameter of bottle to diameter of hose in order for the vacuum to suck up fish waste, but not sand?

Just crimp the hose when the sand starts to rise.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; Another way to approach this is to siphon out some sand during a water change. I have done this with small gravel. I used a length of clear tubing and just allowed the siphon action to pull the gravel out with the water.
I had a stand by cleaned supply of the gravel on hand to replace that portion removed from the tank. When enough of the dirty tank gravel accumulated to make it worth doing I would give it a good rinsing and add it to the standby supply.
With a series of WC over several weeks I could pretty much get all the gravel in the tank replaced this way. I think there are advantages to this method.
First being I get the gravel well cleaned.
I also likely get more of the detritus/mulm out of the tanks.
I only remove a portion of the gravel at any one time so the beneficial bacteria (bb) removed has not proven critical.
I have live rooted plants and found this method allowed me to get in among the roots if my technique was good. By that I would try to not remove too much from around the roots of any one plant or bunch of plants. I also use the siphons with a big tube and a smaller tube and these cannot get quite so deep in among the roots. Both type siphons do work however.

The down side being that you have to have enough extra gravel/sand sitting around to dump back into a tank. There are the extra steps of cleaning the substrate.

 

[itrebebag99]

Hello; Another way to approach this is to siphon out some sand during a water change. I have done this with small gravel. I used a length of clear tubing and just allowed the siphon action to pull the gravel out with the water.
I had a stand by cleaned supply of the gravel on hand to replace that portion removed from the tank. When enough of the dirty tank gravel accumulated to make it worth doing I would give it a good rinsing and add it to the standby supply.
With a series of WC over several weeks I could pretty much get all the gravel in the tank replaced this way. I think there are advantages to this method.
First being I get the gravel well cleaned.
I also likely get more of the detritus/mulm out of the tanks.
I only remove a portion of the gravel at any one time so the beneficial bacteria (bb) removed has not proven critical.
I have live rooted plants and found this method allowed me to get in among the roots if my technique was good. By that I would try to not remove too much from around the roots of any one plant or bunch of plants. I also use the siphons with a big tube and a smaller tube and these cannot get quite so deep in among the roots. Both type siphons do work however.

The down side being that you have to have enough extra gravel/sand sitting around to dump back into a tank. There are the extra steps of cleaning the substrate.

Interesting idea, will be probably be harder to do with sand, though.

 

[skjl47]

Interesting idea, will be probably be harder to do with sand, though.

Hello; That has not been my experience with regard to how the siphon works. Sand usually being smaller grained than gravel flows thru a siphon tube well. I need to admit that back when I was using sand as a substrate I did not try this particular method. I did use a siphon to remove sand from tanks during tank tear downs and found a siphon removes sand well.

I have only used the described method on gravel ranging from roughly bb sized to the size of small peas. The biggest problem being that the occasional larger gravel can clog the siphon tube. Empty shells of dead Ramshorn Snails can clog the siphon tube but that can be fixed by squeezing and cracking them.

 

[itrebebag99]

Hello; That has not been my experience with regard to how the siphon works. Sand usually being smaller grained than gravel flows thru a siphon tube well. I need to admit that back when I was using sand as a substrate I did not try this particular method. I did use a siphon to remove sand from tanks during tank tear downs and found a siphon removes sand well.

I have only used the described method on gravel ranging from roughly bb sized to the size of small peas. The biggest problem being that the occasional larger gravel can clog the siphon tube. Empty shells of dead Ramshorn Snails can clog the siphon tube but that can be fixed by squeezing and cracking them.

Oh yeah sand definitely travels through a siphon easier. I just meant it is a lot harder to clean sand than gravel. Gravel can just be put on a screen and rinsed, it's not so easy with sand.

 

[skjl47]

Oh yeah sand definitely travels through a siphon easier. I just meant it is a lot harder to clean sand than gravel. Gravel can just be put on a screen and rinsed, it's not so easy with sand.

Hello; Interesting, I have never used a screen to rinse gravel but can picture how it works.

I clean sand and gravel the same way. I use two or three buckets, a garden hose and a broom handle. I put between a quart and half gallon of substrate in a bucket and hit it with the hose on the jet setting to stir it up. After getting enough water in to cover the gravel/sand and before the gunk can settle I use the stick to stir some more. Then pour off the dirty water and repeat. Once clean enough (gravel does not have to be pristine) I dump it into a clean bucket.

Easy enough during warm weather when I can do it outside but not much fun when it is cold outside. That may be why I stopped. I guess I could clean enough extra gravel before winter to get me thru a few WC.

 

[wannadivesteve]

How big is your tubing? Most of the commercial gravel vacs top out at about 1/2 inch ID flexible tubing and maybe 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 or 2 inch rigid tubing. If you are using wider flexible hose you'll be moving a lot of water and will need to crimp it, keep the outside bottom of your siphon hose closer to the surface level of your tank (if you haven't noticed already, the lower the siphon is on the outside the faster it will siphon water)or get some kind of oversized bottle that will probably be harder to work with.

Sand is more difficult to gravel vac with a gravel vac than gravel because the individual grains are so light, you need lower flow to do it and even the commercial vacs will need some crimping or other manipulation quite likely. I'd never take the sand out of the tank and into a bucket if I could help it, used to do that when I was a kid and it was a lot of work and mess. Using a gravel vac is the way to go in my opinion. I can effectively gravel vac half a 40 breeder in about 2-3 minutes with gravel, I suspect sand would take at least a few minutes longer just trying not to siphon it up, then hit the other half the next water change. If you have a big tank you might want to section it and hit a section every water change. I used to do dozens of tanks twice a week, gravel over an undergravel filter plate, at my shop years ago and the actual gravel siphoning took little more than a minute or two a tank on most of the tanks. Sand would have taken quite a bit longer, but I'd think it's doable.

 

[skjl47]

How big is your tubing?

Hello; Not clear if you are asking me. If so my tubing has an inside diameter of 3/8 to 1/2 inch. I can stop the flow by placing my thumb over the end.

the lower the siphon is on the outside the faster it will siphon

Hello; Yes.

Sand is more difficult to gravel vac with a gravel vac than gravel

hello; Yes and a reason to not use it.

I suspect sand would take at least a few minutes longer just trying not to siphon it up

Hello; Again not sure if you are talking to me. The point of the method I described is to siphon out the sand with the water.

 

[wannadivesteve]

I was trying to answer itrerbag99, who I think was the OP, who seems to want to gravel vac sand, not remove it.