Hybrid fish

[Aquatic Aggression]

I wonder how many of you anti hybrid guys feel about mixed race people? Also are you good specimens of nature yourself? I'm imagining some of these replys spoken by mouth breathing overweight people. What a ridiculous thought speaking of nature's miracles while we keep fish in glass boxes and garden ponds. Aquariums and nature are not the same thing.

Just look at the flowerhorn above. What exactly is that thing!!?

That thing is a very interesting development in the long history of man keeping and breeding animals.

 

[2Itiwhetu]

I wonder how many of you anti hybrid guys feel about mixed race people? Also are you good specimens of nature yourself? I'm imagining some of these replys spoken by mouth breathing overweight people. What a ridiculous thought speaking of nature's miracles while we keep fish in glass boxes and garden ponds. Aquariums and nature are not the same thing.

That thing is a very interesting development in the long history of man keeping and breeding animals.

I don't like man playing God. What we do to get most hybrid fish is unnatural and as reasonable humans shouldn't allow it.

 

[Aquatic Aggression]

I don't like man playing God. What we do to get most hybrid fish is unnatural and as reasonable humans shouldn't allow it.

Keeping any fish in captivity and being responsible for it's wellbeing is playing god. You are saying if you must have a dog, only keep a wolf, everything else is icky and playing god.

 

[Theos.dad]

I don't like man playing God. What we do to get most hybrid fish is unnatural and as reasonable humans shouldn't allow it.

Have you considered how often man "plays God" in other areas of everyday life?

It blows my mind how some view others for their choice of fish. I like pure bred species and also love hybrids. I don't need everyone to be ok with that. We have steady and reliable places to get both that aren't going anywhere. Tuic is right here and active on this forum supplying some of the best options out there. It's not like these wild species we all love aren't available. I also don't get it when ppl say that hybrids make it hard to find pure species for the purists out there. They're easy to find.

 

[2Itiwhetu]

Have you considered how often man "plays God" in other areas of everyday life?

Yes, I have and none of those are OK either, but this is about fish. This forum site is not about every terrible thing man has done to every animal on earth. Really, we are an appalling creature.

 

[Bbuckley]

Just look at the flowerhorn above. What exactly is that thing!!?

Oii there's nowt wrong with our Eddie at all he's a strong healthy and fun fish.

But I do understand its each to there own. Seriously though your approach could of been better.

 

[duanes]

I wonder how many of you anti hybrid guys feel about mixed race people? Also are you good specimens of nature yourself? I'm imagining some of these replys spoken by mouth breathing overweight people. What a ridiculous thought speaking of nature's miracles while we keep fish in glass boxes and garden ponds. Aquariums and nature are not the same thing.

That thing is a very interesting development in the long history of man keeping and breeding animals.

Since humans are all the same species (Homo sapiens), mixed race people are not hybrids.
To be a hybrid, it would take breeding Homo sapiens with (for example) a chimp(Pan troglodytes), or an orang (Pongo).

Consider the dog (Canis lupus familiars), a St Bernard and poodle are a different breed, but not a different species, so not a hybrid.

 

[koltsixx]

I wish we could all be more understanding and humble when judging our fellow man. Humanity is in my opinion like a child. We struggle to find our place in the world while simultaneously using what ever tools we have to bend the world to our will. We are all in our own ways guilty. Yet some seek to pass judgement without considering their own human weaknesses. The fact is keeping pets, including fish is a selfish endeavor. That is unless you are only actively buying just so you can breed and return to the wild the species that are being devastated by humanity including the tropical fish industry. We do it for our personal enjoyment. Whether it's a sense of accomplishment from breeding, or maintaining fish long term or as simple as wanting to admire your fishes beauty or their behavior. The fact is our own personal satisfaction is primary and the fish secondary otherwise we wouldn't be keeping them in the first place.

As for hybrids an argument can be made for both sides. Some will say they dilute the beauty of naturally occurring species. The millennia of evolution that has inexorably led them to their current form. And the beauty that is in that. And while this is true it is also true that demand for naturally occurring species also hurts them. Hybrids being man made have the benefit of not increasing the destruction of naturally occurring species in the wild. And there are many more points that can be made on both sides if one truly tries to be objective. I personally have never fully delved into it but I am fairly sure a case can be made for both sides as in most things there are positives and negatives.

Since humans are all the same species (Homo sapiens), mixed race people are not hybrids.
To be a hybrid, it would take breeding Homo sapiens with (for example) a chimp(Pan troglodytes), or an orang (Pongo).

Consider the dog (Canis lupus familiars), a St Bernard and poodle are a different breed, but not a different species, so not a hybrid.

This is true but it also true that humans have twisted dogs in every way to serve us and our desires and are a far cry from what they where originally. So much so that many breeds suffer from genetic conditions and some conditions are so prevalent that they are accepted as given complications a owner has to face if they wish to own certain breeds. Yet I am sure that some who are against hybrids here probably have dogs or cats and I have to wonder where is the difference? What is the line that makes such things okay in one instance but not in another? Is it because the deed is done with dogs and cats so we accept it? Does that make it okay? This I think is the problem in general, people draw firm lines in the sand but don't fully appreciate someone else's views or likes. We can fundamentally disagree with what we find appealing but why does it seem to turn into a fight for moral high ground? Why can we not simply respect each others different likes and accept them without trying to label the other person as wrong in some way?

I don't know, all I do know is I am just a man and I accept that I am flawed and I accept that we all are in some way and since I hope others will accept me, I do my best to be accepting of them. And I hope that one day as man trips over himself through the journey of life we will someday learn from our mistakes and slowly find our place in the universe and may it be for the betterment of all living things. Forgive me cheesy I know. I am not that old but I do find myself now reflecting on my own mistakes more than others and one of my biggest has been judging others and not seeing my own fault in things as well as my place in this world and how I might leave in some small way the world a little better. And I find myself trying to be more open minded in that goal. As such my posts reflect my current mindset.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Btw here's a couple pics of some wild hybrids I've caught just earlier this year. These hybrids are actually starting to out compete both of their parent species out in the pond I caught them from. They are hybrids between pumpkinseed sunfish and green sunfish. These hybrids also tend to grow faster and larger then either parent specie from what I've noticed.

Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that what we're all doing this to try to improve on nature. Ik with me personally I just find 2 fish that I like the looks of, pair em together and see what I get. If I get something that I like, great, I get something cool to keep. If not, o well, the rest of the fish (or cats) get a tasty treat then. The only time where hybrids are generally detrimental to the hobby is when sold or traded improperly. As long as they are labeled as hybrids then it's up to the buyer to do as they please with em, atleast they know going into it then that it is a hybrid and not a pure specie.

So as my closing argument, I don't believe hybrids are bad perse but are only when sold or traded improperly. Also hybrids may not be as unnatural as most ppl think they are.

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I personally don't have any problem with the fact that hybrids in nature exist. They simply aren't to my taste, because they are hybrids instead of a species.

Of course, it is certainly interesting how big and fast hybrids can grow.

 

[CrazyPhishMan]

Naturally occurring hybrids are different IMO, in my limited scope they seem to show us an adaptation or evolution in real time instead of retrospectively. Like being at the forefront of technology!
Breeding hybrids and then assigning them a trade name is a slippery slope for reasons others mentioned.
Selling hybrids, when the true species are difficult to find helps no one in my mind. When we talk about line breeding, we are talking about eugenics and US deciding what is best for the animal based on our taste and preferences NOT what’s best for that animals survival. I like to think the natural world has a little better viewpoint on what’s necessary than I do.
While I’m not a fan of hybrids I do enjoy naturally occurring morphs like golden long ear sunnys or all the crazy amphilophus colors that can be found whether xanthic or leucistic or melanistic or whatever else there is.
I know my wish list for fish hasn’t gotten any shorter over the years but it’s only as I learn about new wild species that it grows. I will never compete the list.