Hybridizing Irresponsible?

Scatocephalus

Fire Eel
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I've become interested in acquiring some leos and am concerned about ending up with hybrids. I have to ask, is it irresponsible to be crossing all of these rays? It seems that in just 2-3 generations we will have a bunch of mutts making it impossible to know for sure what we have. And with little to no prospects of bringing more in from Brazil are we hobbyists screwing ourselves over?
 

Zoodiver

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I forsee this becoming a very hot topic thread.

Personally, I'm against it. I agree it will smear the captive ray DNA too much and will eliminate ability to tell true species from muts. I think we need to keep the lines as pure as possible with what info we have. And as we learn more about DNA make up, add that information to what we are currently using for breeding.
 

csx4236

Jack Dempsey
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Scatocephalus;2189862; said:
I've become interested in acquiring some leos and am concerned about ending up with hybrids. I have to ask, is it irresponsible to be crossing all of these rays? It seems that in just 2-3 generations we will have a bunch of mutts making it impossible to know for sure what we have. And with little to no prospects of bringing more in from Brazil are we hobbyists screwing ourselves over?

I would suggest you buy them from a more reliable source if your worried you have to turn down some to get the best. There are only a handful of breeders I will buy for pure stock from.
 

Scatocephalus

Fire Eel
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Miles;2190007; said:
Microchips and certificates ??? :popcorn:
Please explain how this will help prevent the spread of mixed rays beyond the chipped fish.
 

Miles

Stingray King
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Scatocephalus;2190092; said:
Please explain how this will help prevent the spread of mixed rays beyond the chipped fish.
mmm beyond the chip? I was thinking they would go hand-in-hand and it would be a good way to track the genetics of the ray, rather then by 'word-of-mouth'.. I know Frank/Nico in Europe chip their rays and have a database. and h20CustomAquatics has all pure livestock ;) some came from Frank? maybe he will chip his rays too soon :D
 

Scatocephalus

Fire Eel
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csx4236;2190050; said:
I would suggest you buy them from a more reliable source if your worried you have to turn down some to get the best. There are only a handful of breeders I will buy for pure stock from.
I can appreciate this. I have dealt with a similar situation regarding cichlids in recent years.
 

Onion01

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Aug 8, 2007
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I think this is a great thread, and interesting point. I've thought about this before. Why is there so much controversy in hybridizing fish like FH and blood parrots, seen as disgusting by many people, while hybridized rays are held in such high regard? Granted, their patterns are amazing, but I've found much less protest among ray keepers than fish keepers over hybridization.
 

African_Fever

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I definitely agree. With african cichlids (where most of my past experience lies), it was commonly acceptable in the past to breed any two species together even if they came from different locations. Now, people are after only 'true' blooded fish, and breeding the same species together from different locations is highly frowned upon (to put it lightly); this would be similar to breeding a Peruvian motoro to a Colombian motoro, or even motoro's from two different rivers in Peru.

I think as more and more borders are closed to exporting rays, the demand for pure-bred fish will increase. I agree the patterns on the hybrids are cool, but (at least from what I've seen), there seems to be far more hybrid rays coming out Asia, where most of the large breeding operations seem to be focused, than pure-bred rays.

The 'value' that I see with hybrid rays isn't exactly in the rays themselves, but if, as I asked in another thread, having two rays hybridize will help the rays spawn with their own species once they've practiced and got it right. So would I intentionally create a hybrid ray? Yes, if it was with the intent of assisting one of the fish with getting it right so that it may reproduce with its own species in the future. But would I intentially breed two hybrid rays together? No, I'd simply take them for what they are, and enjoy them as great looking animals.

I personally can't wait until I get some captive-bred pure leo's, and think that microchipping or some other way of keeping track of the rays would be ideal to help maintain as much genetic diversity among the pure-bred rays as possible.
 

Nic

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Onion01;2190241; said:
I think this is a great thread, and interesting point. I've thought about this before. Why is there so much controversy in hybridizing fish like FH and blood parrots, seen as disgusting by many people, while hybridized rays are held in such high regard? Granted, their patterns are amazing, but I've found much less protest among ray keepers than fish keepers over hybridization.
ray keepers are more laid back;) plus those hybrids look amazing...

i do think with the hybrids over in asia that the price of pure bloods with drop... and there will always be pure blood rays... mike does breed some hybrids but will always have pure bloods same with the guys in europe.. i dont think we will ever see pure bloods be un obtainable
 
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