I need a medic here!

[DavidW]

David knows best...............

if I believe my own hubris


seriously tho, what I know I have learned the hard way over about 33 years of keeping Amazon fish, and a long career debating on various forums LOL so if I know more its probably only because I have a few more years on me than others, and I am a slave to my curiosity, each answer leading to another "how?" or "why?", that and too much time on my hands sometimes!

If you do decide to adjust the pH using acid ( muriatic acid is commonly used for this, available from swimming pool supply stores) do it in a separate container 24 hours before you need it to allow any pH 'bounces' to reach equlibrium before adding it to your tank, so if you eff up you have done no harm. Wear gloves and goggles and have an accurate digital pH meter. A much better and safer but slower way is to use r/o

 

[skynoch]

The last person I would argue with is David for sure. I do agree with him on the best ph level for rays and higher levels could complicate things further.
This is where I may differ or not. I think you would be better off keeping a high constant ph with good filtration and water changes than trying to mix your water with r/o unless you are good with water chemistry and are monitoring your water fairly regularly.
I've been keeping my rays in a ph of 8.6 and a tds reading of 600+ ppm and have not really encountered any problems that I've noticed. I have tigers, flowers and a few other variants. Maybe things would be easier with a lower ph I'm not sure since I've only tried it with my tigers for 6 months and then slowly switched to just striaght tap and never seen any problems. As far as long term affect on my rays I don't know what the outcome will be yet since I haven't been keeping rays long enough to know. I do know rudy has a Henlie that is around 20 years old and has been kept in water with a high ph and hardness (Nice mountain run off). So I think they can thrive in the high ph with no problems but maybe my life would be easier at a low ph.lol
I always appreciate when you chime in David keep the info coming for us.

 

[skynoch]

Reading thru your last post makes me believe you still don't have enough bio media for your stock. Do a water change using enough water conditioner for your whole tank..go buy a ehiem 2028 filter with biomedia included...get some biospira...do small water changes and hope your bacteria builds quick enough.

 

[Tom]

good luck with that... when a person has a uncycled tank and a high PH you dont tell them to not mess with there PH they need to LOWER it to make the ammonia less toxic .

I should have been more clear with what I was trying to get across.
This is very true. Rayrookie was not very clear as to what his setup, params or care regimen is and I was trying to figure that out. I never said just drop the rays into the uncycled tank, just to acclimate slowly if he was to put them in a higher ph. I was really trying to find out what he is doing with his tank in the first place that is causing problems but the lack of information given does not help.

 

[turkeyboy85]

Enough bickering.... His question has been answered

 

[DavidW]

re the water hardness...are you talking about GH or KH or total hardness?

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html
>>..Incorrect GH will affect the transfer
of nutrients and waste products through cell membranes and can affect
egg fertility, proper functioning of internal organs such as kidneys
and growth. Within reason, most fish and plants can successfully
adapt to local GH conditions, although breeding may be impaired.<<


0 - 4 dH, 0 - 70 ppm : very soft
4 - 8 dH, 70 - 140 ppm : soft
8 - 12 dH, 140 - 210 ppm : medium hard
12 - 18 dH, 210 - 320 ppm : fairly hard
18 - 30 dH, 320 - 530 ppm : hard
higher : liquid rock (Lake Malawi and Los Angeles, CA)

 

[skynoch]

re the water hardness...are you talking about GH or KH or total hardness?

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html
>>..Incorrect GH will affect the transfer
of nutrients and waste products through cell membranes and can affect
egg fertility, proper functioning of internal organs such as kidneys
and growth. Within reason, most fish and plants can successfully
adapt to local GH conditions, although breeding may be impaired.<<


0 - 4 dH, 0 - 70 ppm : very soft
4 - 8 dH, 70 - 140 ppm : soft
8 - 12 dH, 140 - 210 ppm : medium hard
12 - 18 dH, 210 - 320 ppm : fairly hard
18 - 30 dH, 320 - 530 ppm : hard
higher : liquid rock (Lake Malawi and Los Angeles, CA)

Sorry dw I don't kow Rudy's exact parameters on harndess but know our parameters are close. My gh sits around 180 ppm which I always thought was considered hard but according to this it isn't so bad. lol
So how does kh affect rays? Or does it?

 

[DavidW]

180 ppm = a bit more than 10dH. medium hard, could be worse. I think I already mentioned some of the ways that water hardness may affect rays

here is a useful converter

http://www.hagen.com/uk/aquatic/gh_kh_conv_cal.cfm

 

[Nic]

Enough bickering.... His question has been answered

simple discussion buddy

 

[omojena]

if you cant do a water cahnge in the office then you cant keep a ray in the office....