I think we are being persuaded by the wrong people

[RD.]

Bill, with all due respect, and you know that I like you amigo, but you are starting to sound like the extremists.

People can only attempt to come in your house, it's still your house, and no one from AHS would dream of coming into my home because they thought that I had a pair of sharp scissors. Most of the idjits working for AHS would be lucky if they could even get the house number correct. LOL They only act on complaints of nuisance conditions, with regards to safety, health & welfare of the public. Ditto to most agencies, including fish & wildlife. And if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about. Right? Is there a Govt agency going around in the UK and kicking doors down over fish keeping violations? I don't think so, but perhaps I missed those front page stories?

I think I might have to make a trip out to the farm next month and buy you a decaf.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Loving how there's an already embedded link for "sharp scissors" in the above post. lol

So W wildbill , just to verify things with hardcore facts, where's the evidence? Solid documents or links that I can look up? I haven't heard anything about England...isn't it also one of THE top places to be if you like fish bc of Maidenshead Aquatics or something? Please don't take this the wrong way, but since there's this whole 'emotions vs. science' subdebate going on here, facts and evidence are friends atm. Additionally, for the "sharp knife"argument, the USA has gun rights activists who'll probably lobby about the restriction of knives because

Additionally, the United States' Bill of Rights (thank you APUSH) protects us from unreasonable search and seizure via Amendment IV. For the police to enter my house in the USA, they need a warrant at the least, approved by a judge.

Wailua Boy , then why doesn't somebody explain to the people proposing the laws, that withholding the food prior to shipment (not the entire time in the holding tanks) is okay for the fish because a)it reduces metabolic wastes that the fish can barely handles such as ammonia, and b)fish can go for very, very long times without food? I don't know too much about the whole gallon of water per fish, which, to me, seems a bit excessive (1/2 gallon on the other hand, as long as you keep the fish on the cool side, seems pretty spacey to me).

Ugh...politics. Why can't these groups just leave me alone to take pristine care of my fish like always?

 

[Wailua Boy]

Research Rene Umberger. She was a very active supporter and testified in favor of the bill . She was the one who had her regulator tore out of her mouth, as she was harassing a fish collector. They are looking at it from the point it is cruel and unusual to withhold food for more than 24hrs. What is cruel and unusual is forcing someone to expose their fish to ammonia

 

[skjl47]

Hello Wailua Boy; "What is cruel and unusual is forcing someone to expose their fish to ammonia" you are quite correct. Issues such as this will be part of the problem in that folks writing the regs based on an emotional response rather than a solid understanding.

I think back to posts in a thread about fasting days vs. feeding fish every day. Some stated they feed their fish several times a day because the fish seemed to beg for food when they approached the tank. The thinking apparently being the fish must be hungry.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Geez...if a kid was fed every time he/she "looked hungry", we'd have a nation of obese kids...oh wait. that's still happening.

I do remember seeing that about Ms. Umberger. However, I also don't think it was a good idea for said fish collector to rip the regulator out of the mouth. I need to learn how to dive, but until then, isn't there an underwater sign language that basically states "leave me alone" or something? I just looked up the video, and my response was...not polite. Ugh. 30 seconds to locate a regulator? Seriously? Additionally, she was on a Sea Shepherd boat...which while it has a noble idea, I think has been labelled an eco-terrorist organization? Also, was that Snorkel Bob guy one of the people testifying as well? Just...words that are not appropriate for children on the internet. I'd like to see her keep a fish alive in an aquarium...

Although...I can see where this is coming from. As land breathers and mammals, people are vastly different from fish than from dogs/cats. If you withhold food from a dog/cat/person for a week, that is cruel, because the organism's body requires fuel to produce necessary body heat. If you withhold food from a fish for a week, it's not cruel because fish are endothermic, and only rely on food to produce chemical energy (ATP), and their metabolism is directly corelated to the outer water temperature. If a terrestrial mammal produces bodily waste, it's not going to poison them in close quarters, because it's solid/liquid matter in gaseous matter. Whereas if a fish produces bodily waste, it's going to poison them in close quarters, since it's liquid matter in liquid matter. I'm having trouble with arguing with more water per fish though...but y'all already know this...

 

[Wailua Boy]

The irony here is, so these regs pass, the collection of these fish become unprofitable and industry collapses in Hawaii. The importation of these fish from other parts of the world will increase. Keep in mind in Hawaii, the industry is fairly highly regulated; All fish are accounted for and I have never heard of cyanide fishing occurring. Other parts of the world cyanide fishing and other harsher methods are still common. Ultimately if these regs pass more fish will die and then add increased travels times will increase mortality on top of that, which is the opposite of what these activist want. Or the state could regulate the industry and use proceeds for research and enforcement. I don't like the idea of over collection but in a regulated manner could work.

 

[wild bill]

Sea Shepard is an off shoot from green peace they are protecting our oceans from pollution and what not. Great if it were true how ever they sink oil tankers and try to sink whaling ships more idiots where an animals life is higher than a humans. This is documented you can find it googling W5 sea shepard episode.
I know I sound out to lunch on the AHS RD but just look up the public health act. Also I really don't know if decaf would help LOL. Alot of what happened to us this spring no one knows.

 

[wild bill]

Ok I found on google under the britis animal welfare act laws for fish keeping. Yes these are their laws not just ethics you should try for.

 

[Wailua Boy]

I found a good site called adifferentkindoffarm.com. The progenitors also started a captive seahorse farm, few good interviews....

 

[suckerfish]

Anybody remember those awesome, beautiful , intriguing and I'd say "smart" fish species called Channa? Yes Bush was president at the time but caved to these piles of garbage ARA's. Even though only a few types could even live here. Especially red lines. Don't think they could even survive a Florida winter. Point being, it can happen a lot faster than we think? What could happen? You name it. And it wasn't even a hobbiest that released those argus!!!!!! Immigration - well maybe that's for another topic! lol