Carpintis, IMO. Is the fish under 6 inches? He looks exactly (especially the face pattern) like mine did until he got over 7". The pearling has definately increased since then. Mine tend to look dull for a while after they darken after breeding. Of course mine is from an LFS, albeit pretty good one, so take it for what its worth.
ID my Texan
- Thread starter n0zqh
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Modest_Man;3357937; said:
Thanks man... With a Master's and a Ph.D. I've learned just how LITTLE I know about biology. It's a big world with more things we don't know than things we know. It's fun to sound like an expert, but I've learned that just sharing info (and asking key questions) is way more important for such discussions. In fact, part of me was hoping there was something to this whole 'purple' base color idea... I would have been overjoyed if that was a solid character (who knows, it still may be!!!).
Good points about the species issue and the 'pure species' in aquariums issue.
)Let's elevate this one more level here...
There is a natural hybrid zone and in the hobby there was no differentiation between carpintis and cyanoguttatus until relatively recently (so, almost all "texas cichlids" in the hobby probably have genes from both).
Here's a great article on the hybrid zone that shows each species and the natural hybrids:
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=357
Also, there is an issue of body height and mouth size, according to Dr. Rush Miller's great book on the freshwater fishes of Mexico. These measurements may not always work though in practice (and may only apply to certain subpopulations). For those curious, the carpintis had the higher bodies and smaller mouths (but again, don't count on this being a certain way to tell).
Just more to chew on.
There is a natural hybrid zone and in the hobby there was no differentiation between carpintis and cyanoguttatus until relatively recently (so, almost all "texas cichlids" in the hobby probably have genes from both).
Here's a great article on the hybrid zone that shows each species and the natural hybrids:
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=357
Also, there is an issue of body height and mouth size, according to Dr. Rush Miller's great book on the freshwater fishes of Mexico. These measurements may not always work though in practice (and may only apply to certain subpopulations). For those curious, the carpintis had the higher bodies and smaller mouths (but again, don't count on this being a certain way to tell).
Just more to chew on.
also.. notice if you will, that there is a difference genetically between them in Hulsey's paper here:
http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/18.pdf
(just look at the family tree and the table for locales)
...but also notice how close they are!
http://www.yale.edu/eeb/near/18.pdf
(just look at the family tree and the table for locales)
...but also notice how close they are!
My guess is carpintis, but not the popular escondido variety which is the most common and sought-after at the moment.
Also, I wouldn't consider flaming someone "modest". And you're not the only one here that's studying fish. Far from it in fact.
Also, I wouldn't consider flaming someone "modest". And you're not the only one here that's studying fish. Far from it in fact.
Acestro;3359004; said:
pretty sure you didn't . . . didn't see anyone get truly flamed either
thanks for the articles; although the first one just made me question the identity of my latest "Texas" acquisition even more
Well, it's like Modest Man said, unless you know for sure the origin of your fish or its parents, you're in "no mans land" with this pair of species. Same kind of deal with red devils and midas.
Yeah, I haven't really seen any flaming. I'd actually like to have more of these folks researching fish chime in! Michi Tobler is one of the best folks out there roaming the boards, especially on Cichlid Room Companion where Juan Miguel Artigas Azas is the champion Herichthys expert. There's a few other cichlid researcher folks there that I'm forgetting too.
I'll actually have a TFH article on "Academia and the Aquarist" coming up in the next year, ironically enough!
Yeah, I haven't really seen any flaming. I'd actually like to have more of these folks researching fish chime in! Michi Tobler is one of the best folks out there roaming the boards, especially on Cichlid Room Companion where Juan Miguel Artigas Azas is the champion Herichthys expert. There's a few other cichlid researcher folks there that I'm forgetting too.
I'll actually have a TFH article on "Academia and the Aquarist" coming up in the next year, ironically enough!
I'm just stated things I have been told and learned from several lfs', owning several differet types, and even reading on these boards for the past year. It's a public forum, with may more "non experts" than people like Acestro, and if it's a problem for people that don't have phd's and breed the fish to post, so be it. These Texas cichlid posts always turn into a big arguement, with nobody getting anywhere cause every other person seems to know where it came from, when in reality you are right, nobody really does. To the op, good luck trying to figure it out; you could possibly ask the source where they got it from.
