Inquiry of Cuban Cichlids - Split Posts

[dogofwar]

I think it's pretty clear that whether stuff sourced in Cuba is imported / brought to the US directly...or (legally) imported / brought to Canada (the UK, anyplace other than the US)...and then brought / imported to the US, that it's not legal in the US.

Whether it's profitable to run a business doing such a thing is irrelevant. So is whether you get caught or not.

I personally think that our trade embargo with Cuba is an anachronism and is stupid... but I don't make the law.

In the original thread, I inquired about the collection point because I was interested in where the fish were found and wanted to get a look at the biotype. It, of course, came back unknown to Google...

Matt

 

[Modest_Man]

Also, you don't have to personally bring the fish into the US. There's this amazing thing called international shipping, in which you can ship to and from places like Canada and Europe. Cubans are not illegal in the US! And as long as the fish weren't "purchased" in/from Cuba(ie. European tourist/ hobbyist catches a box full and brings them back with him), someone from Europe, or Canada would have no problem selling/shipping them to the US. But like I said before, there really isn't a big market for these fish, and especially to purchase them wild caught. Most people, including myself, would not go through the trouble(mainly $$) to get wild cubans. So if, and when they do find themselves in the US, I can promise you, there will not be enough of them to raise any flags, anywhere. If there was that much business in Cuban cichlids, I'm sure the US would be more than happy to add them to the list of illegal species.

Read the whole thread. Getting Cuban products from a third country is still illegal (news to me).

 

[Nemesis]

So how did these fish originally get into this country? The embargo forbids Cuba to receive funds from the US in any way, but if the fish were not purchased in/ from Cuba, rather personally caught, and brought back, is there any law being broken? Cubans have been found near Havana(a major tourist location), so how hard would it be for a tourist to catch a few and take them home? Now if I come back with a box of Cuban Cigars and claim I found them in a lake near my hotel, I think that would be a problem.

 

[Nemesis]

Also, based on your statement, any F1 Cubans purchased within the last 50yrs, or any Cubans period, should be illegal in the US. If a Canadian purchases a pair of wild Cubans from Cuba, with the intentions of breeding them, and selling them to the US, this would still be profiting from the US off a Cuban product. If I take the tobacco from a Cuban cigar, and split it up into the wrappers of a Canadian cigar, would it be ok to sell them to the US? But then again, it's hard to compare actual merchandise, like cigars, to fish

 

[Nemesis]

Just spoke with my cousin, who has a Cuban wife(US citizen). He makes trips to Cuba every year with his wife to visit her family, without any problems. How? The embargo clearly states that a US citizen is not aloud to spend any money with Cuba. And purchasing a airline ticket to Cuba would be funding the Cuban Communist Government. Well, his mother in law purchases his ticket for him departing and returning from Cancun, Mexico, and pays all his expenses in Cuba. As long as he doesn't spend a dime in Cuba, it's not illegal. He even brings back clothes and souvenirs from Cuba, that his mother in law purchased for him. Actually, he even get's his passport stamped in Cuba, and has no problems with US customs. So... on next years visit, if a few of his nephews were to go down to a local stream or lake, and catch a few Cubans for him to bring back, I can have some Wild Cubans, legally brought into this country. Now, is it really worth it to me? Not really. To others maybe? I'm sure bringing a box of fish in would rise a few questions, and make my cousin a bit uncomfortable, but that's not to say he is not allowed to do it. And aside from a few questions, there's nothing they can do.

 

[baldtaxguy]

Just spoke with my cousin, who has a Cuban wife(US citizen). He makes trips to Cuba every year with his wife to visit her family, without any problems. How? The embargo clearly states that a US citizen is not aloud (sic) to spend any money with Cuba. And purchasing a airline ticket to Cuba would be funding the Cuban Communist Government. Well, his mother in law purchases his ticket for him departing and returning from Cancun, Mexico, and pays all his expenses in Cuba. As long as he doesn't spend a dime in Cuba, it's not illegal. He even brings back clothes and souvenirs from Cuba, that his mother in law purchased for him. Actually, he even get's his passport stamped in Cuba, and has no problems with US customs. So... on next years visit, if a few of his nephews were to go down to a local stream or lake, and catch a few Cubans for him to bring back, I can have some Wild Cubans, legally brought into this country. Now, is it really worth it to me? Not really. To others maybe? I'm sure bringing a box of fish in would rise a few questions, and make my cousin a bit uncomfortable, but that's not to say he is not allowed to do it. And aside from a few questions, there's nothing they can do.

You can transport goods that you claim to not have purchased? How does your cousin prove that he did not purchase those transported goods? Just claim he did not?

 

[baldtaxguy]

Also, based on your statement, any F1 Cubans purchased within the last 50yrs, or any Cubans period, should be illegal in the US. If a Canadian purchases a pair of wild Cubans from Cuba, with the intentions of breeding them, and selling them to the US, this would still be profiting from the US off a Cuban product. If I take the tobacco from a Cuban cigar, and split it up into the wrappers of a Canadian cigar, would it be ok to sell them to the US? But then again, it's hard to compare actual merchandise, like cigars, to fish

I don't think the question extends to something as ridiculous as this. The question is, and I think it been properly posed to a vendor who should know, can wild-caught tetracanthus make their way into a U.S. home by way of a vendor from another country. On another thread, someone provided wonderful pictures of a pair that are purported to be wild-caught. I"m interested as to how that can happen.

 

[dogofwar]

According to this logic, it would be OK to find some tobacco plants in Cuba, harvest them (yourself) and bring them back to the US (or through Canada to the US). You just saw the plants - they were by your hotel - and took them...no money changed hands, right?

This begs the questions:
- Did you have a permit (from Cuba) to harvest the tobacco?
- What's keeping people from collecting all sorts of wildlife from Cuba, if it's free for the taking?
- Why aren't more people doing it?

Matt

So how did these fish originally get into this country? The embargo forbids Cuba to receive funds from the US in any way, but if the fish were not purchased in/ from Cuba, rather personally caught, and brought back, is there any law being broken? Cubans have been found near Havana(a major tourist location), so how hard would it be for a tourist to catch a few and take them home? Now if I come back with a box of Cuban Cigars and claim I found them in a lake near my hotel, I think that would be a problem.

 

[buddha1200]

I think it's pretty clear that whether stuff sourced in Cuba is imported / brought to the US directly...or (legally) imported / brought to Canada (the UK, anyplace other than the US)...and then brought / imported to the US, that it's not legal in the US.



Matt

so according to this logic,every vendor,petstore,hobbyist that have owned or now have in their possesion a cuban cichlid are criminals and should be fined or arrested. Because lets face it not to many of us where breeding cuban cichlids for 50 years or more,anyone breeding cubans cichlids is profiting off of an illigal pair of fish whether they were bought from another country or (smuggled)they are still cuban. and according to the laws posted on this site they are illegal. Lets face it for every law you find and post you still can't explain how cubans got to this country if they did not come from cuba directly(which we all agree they cant)then they had to come from a third country. Just like it was stated at the beginning. YOU CAN GET CUBAN CICHLIDS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. PERIOD. no matter how you try and change wording to make it seem other than its not .

 

[dogofwar]

According to how I understand the law, just fish (or other stuff) acquired directly from Cuba are covered under the law, whether brought to the US directly or through another country.

I'm not a lawyer so I can't speak to case law (if any exists) regarding the legality of importing to the US offspring of animals legally brought to Canada or UK or some other place than the US from Cuba.

I also don't know Cuban law regarding extraction of fish, plants, or other wildlife from their country.

Or Canadian law about bringing animals or plants acquired abroad into the country.

Matt

so according to this logic,every vendor,petstore,hobbyist that have owned or now have in their possesion a cuban cichlid are criminals and should be fined or arrested. Because lets face it not to many of us where breeding cuban cichlids for 50 years or more,anyone breeding cubans cichlids is profiting off of an illigal pair of fish whether they were bought from another country or (smuggled)they are still cuban. and according to the laws posted on this site they are illegal. Lets face it for every law you find and post you still can't explain how cubans got to this country if they did not come from cuba directly(which we all agree they cant)then they had to come from a third country. Just like it was stated at the beginning. YOU CAN GET CUBAN CICHLIDS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. PERIOD. no matter how you try and change wording to make it seem other than its not .