Is Fatherfish trying to form a cult lol

[SilverArowanaBoi]

To throw my two cents in...I agree with those against FatherFish. He has some pretty bogus ideas, and his method only works with particular tank setups that only %1 of the fish-keeping hobbyists have. I also agree with those who have mentioned tanks should be as close to nature as possible. However, Father Fish takes that idea to the extreme. Plus, how is it a good idea to get water and "gunk" from nature and put it in an already thriving/or starting a new fish tank? Only God knows how many diseases and "bad gunk" are in the sediment. Why would you want to put that in? It is straight-up ridiculous. Plus, is it not more work to have plants in a tank than not to have plants or at least minimal plants? You have to trim them when they get crazy, you have to make sure the water is suitable. It is just a lot of work.

For more reliable info, KGTropicals is WAY better. I learned most of what I know about fish keeping from the duo. Also, CichlidBros is great for cichlids.

P.S. I have watched a few of his videos. I'm not just basing my opinion off of everyone else's; well before I joined this forum, I had watched one or two of his videos. For those of you who have mentioned his slow-talking thing, I 100% agree. It put me to dang sleep. lolol

 

[esoxlucius]

Well, yes, actually it is. I've seen the two vids, both essentially blathering the same things, and I don't agree with what I heard. Exactly how many times must I waste my time listening to him before I am allowed that opinion?

I don't like coconut; tasted it many times in many recipes and simply don't care for the flavour. Do I need to keep eating it before I am allowed to form that opinion...or can I just decide "Nope...don't like this stuff, not eating any more of it?"

I like naturalistic tanks, I don't medicate the crap out of my fishtanks every time a fish seems a little "off", and I agree that I want my fish to live in conditions that are as close as possible to those in which they evolved. I like low-tech; I adore low maintenance. That doesn't mean filling a tank with water and mud and deciding not to touch it for a few years. It means that I want the water chemistry to be as close as possible to that in nature. But a tiny volume of water in a box in my house can't be expected to replicate the conditions and complex interrelated processes found in nature, not without a lot of help on my part. I don't "need" filters or aeration or artificial lighting, but I use all of them...because they help me to artificially create water conditions similar to natural ones. But the single easiest thing I do to achieve that goal is changing water.

Nitrates inevitably accumulate in aquariums; do you rely upon natural anaerobic activity to perform that last vital step in the nitrogen cycle, the denitrification of nitrate into nitrogen gas? Or do you rely upon plants? Or do you just ignore it and hope it goes away? Water changes would fix that for you...

There are also countless other waste products and materials that are being produced and excreted by the fish, and these are not easily and readily tested for by home aquarists. Do you just ignore them and hope they go away? Water changes would fix that for you...

My well water is pretty hard and somewhat alkaline...a common combination. If I topped up evaporation with it I would have stalactites encrusted on the bottom of my lid. Does FF condone the use of distilled or RO water...not very natural...or does he just ignore this issue and hope it goes away? Water changes would...you know...

I don't give a rat's behind how old a tank is; I want to know how old the fish in that tank are, how they look, how they grow and breed and behave.

FF takes ideas that have some value and carries them to silly extremes; that approach usually fails. He rails on about how "easy" his method is...so naturally he sucks in the lazy people who want to do nothing. He emphasizes how his method saves money...and thus grabs the cheapskates who want something for nothing. And of course he sells his FF supplements and snake oils and magic elixirs...'nuff said about that.

I am not a techie guy, but I assume he makes money based upon how many people click on his videos. What I have seen makes me think he is a shyster, emphasizing the points that appear to bolster his sales-pitch and conveniently ignoring the many that don't; he's mastered the art of the Slow Talking Con and plays up his grandfatherly persona and his back-to-nature approach to the fullest advantage. I just don't want to contribute to his profits, especially when I believe that his approach will cause far more harm than good in the majority of instances.

Would I be too far off the mark if I said that on the quiet you're really quite fond of the old dude, lol.

Are you ok? First you terrorise me in a PM message and now you've just savaged father Christmas to within an inch of his life, lol.

 

[jjohnwm]

Would I be too far off the mark if I said that on the quiet you're really quite fond of the old dude, lol.

Are you ok? First you terrorise me in a PM message and now you've just savaged father Christmas to within an inch of his life, lol.

Well, yeah, I'd say you missed that mark by a pretty wide margin.

Your second comment may raise some eyebrows among those who aren't familiar with that other thread...but, hey, that's okay...let 'em wonder...

I mean...it wasn't my fault that you insisted on reading those messages in the incorrect order.

 

[Trouser Cough]

 

[johnsfishyfingers]

Well, yes, actually it is. I've seen the two vids, both essentially blathering the same things, and I don't agree with what I heard. Exactly how many times must I waste my time listening to him before I am allowed that opinion?

I don't like coconut; tasted it many times in many recipes and simply don't care for the flavour. Do I need to keep eating it before I am allowed to form that opinion...or can I just decide "Nope...don't like this stuff, not eating any more of it?"

I like naturalistic tanks, I don't medicate the crap out of my fishtanks every time a fish seems a little "off", and I agree that I want my fish to live in conditions that are as close as possible to those in which they evolved. I like low-tech; I adore low maintenance. That doesn't mean filling a tank with water and mud and deciding not to touch it for a few years. It means that I want the water chemistry to be as close as possible to that in nature. But a tiny volume of water in a box in my house can't be expected to replicate the conditions and complex interrelated processes found in nature, not without a lot of help on my part. I don't "need" filters or aeration or artificial lighting, but I use all of them...because they help me to artificially create water conditions similar to natural ones. But the single easiest thing I do to achieve that goal is changing water.

Nitrates inevitably accumulate in aquariums; do you rely upon natural anaerobic activity to perform that last vital step in the nitrogen cycle, the denitrification of nitrate into nitrogen gas? Or do you rely upon plants? Or do you just ignore it and hope it goes away? Water changes would fix that for you...

There are also countless other waste products and materials that are being produced and excreted by the fish, and these are not easily and readily tested for by home aquarists. Do you just ignore them and hope they go away? Water changes would fix that for you...

My well water is pretty hard and somewhat alkaline...a common combination. If I topped up evaporation with it I would have stalactites encrusted on the bottom of my lid. Does FF condone the use of distilled or RO water...not very natural...or does he just ignore this issue and hope it goes away? Water changes would...you know...

I don't give a rat's behind how old a tank is; I want to know how old the fish in that tank are, how they look, how they grow and breed and behave.

FF takes ideas that have some value and carries them to silly extremes; that approach usually fails. He rails on about how "easy" his method is...so naturally he sucks in the lazy people who want to do nothing. He emphasizes how his method saves money...and thus grabs the cheapskates who want something for nothing. And of course he sells his FF supplements and snake oils and magic elixirs...'nuff said about that.

I am not a techie guy, but I assume he makes money based upon how many people click on his videos. What I have seen makes me think he is a shyster, emphasizing the points that appear to bolster his sales-pitch and conveniently ignoring the many that don't; he's mastered the art of the Slow Talking Con and plays up his grandfatherly persona and his back-to-nature approach to the fullest advantage. I just don't want to contribute to his profits, especially when I believe that his approach will cause far more harm than good in the majority of instances.

Having an opinion is fine. Having an opinion without really knowing what you are having an opinion on is goofy. Especially when you are so vehement about it. And he doesnt have the subscribers to be making much money on it. And yes as i said earlier if you took the time to watch his videos it would answer literally every one of your questions. And yes he does sell some things but at a lower price than it would take you to source the materials yourself and he also tells you the ingredients so you can make the soil supplement yourself and tells you how to find the rest yourself. So you have no obligation to buy anything from him.
Also soil supplements are a key part of gardening, anyone who knows anything about plants can tell you that. And cultures of microfauna are what im going to assume you call "magic elixir".... i could see why you think he is a snake oil salesman. He does his best to break down complicated things that not everyone can grasp.

Your whole point of a "slow talking con" is out the window already as he teaches you how to do the whole process without him. This also isnt exactly anything new. This is just a more in depth scientific approach to a diana walstad method.

also curious what are the "countless waste products" you say are being produced by fish.

The man owns a fish store but isnt shilling equipment. Wild right?
Either way if you took the time to watch his videos you would have every one of your questions answered instead of being out here thinking water changes are the only way to a healthy tank and plants are somehow cheating the nitrogen cycle. (They are actually a part of it)

 

[johnsfishyfingers]

Did you not see the video I used as an example? It’s creepy AF and yes, it gave me chomo vibes.
Yes, I know “no WC” tanks can work. I’ve done a couple, but should they work is another question. Most are nasty and unattractive and not viable long term for most and won’t work with all types of fish. I’d argue that a no WC is more likely to work in a reef tank than a FW

No wc tanks can be very attractive and do work well. It takes understanding something and doing it correctly is all.
In this day and age calling someone a chomo or making claims like that is not only irresponsible its childish. Hes not saying anything creepy he is just an older slow talking guy. At that age i hope i still have the mental faculties that he does especially with how prevalent alzheimers and dementia are.

 

[Trouser Cough]

JFF... subjective responses can make for interesting banter (sometimes) but there are a number of us that don't use opinion as benchmark. Mind snapping a few pics of your aquarium setups along with current NH3 / NH4 / NO2 / NO3 readings? It might go a long way toward influencing the impression others have if that's what you're after.

A fish in your care is on life support 24/7/365 and although many have a different view of how healthy those systems need to be it's also true that children might ignore water quality parameters but those of us that are on the opposite end of the scale are often more inclined toward the science we've been taught and all of us are reading your claims w/ varying degrees of skepticism. I think his claims are complete BS myself but I'm always interested in learning from someone that knows I'm wrong.

How often do you test your tank's water?

Walstad said that a wc interval was important and 6 months was the longest you should put it off. She also had far different species and loading than most as she was a gardener and not primarily a fish keeper.

 

[johnsfishyfingers]

JFF... subjective responses can make for interesting banter (sometimes) but there are a number of us that don't use opinion as benchmark. Mind snapping a few pics of your aquarium setups along with current NH3 / NH4 / NO2 / NO3 readings? It might go a long way toward influencing the impression others have if that's what you're after.

A fish in your care is on life support 24/7/365 and although many have a different view of how healthy those systems need to be it's also true that children might ignore water quality parameters but those of us that are on the opposite end of the scale are often more inclined toward the science we've been taught and all of us are reading your claims w/ varying degrees of skepticism. I think his claims are complete BS myself but I'm always interested in learning from someone that knows I'm wrong.

How often do you test your tank's water?

Walstad said that a wc interval was important and 6 months was the longest you should put it off. She also had far different species and loading than most as she was a gardener and not primarily a fish keeper.

My nitrates stay around 25 nitrites and ammonia 0. My fish are all pretty old exceot the baby otocinclus from mine breeding and my daughters betta fish is only 2 years old. Everything else in my 140gallon is closer to 5 years or older. The shrimp colony in my daughters tank has been persisting for over 4 years.

I have no idea how to put pictures in here. I dont use the social media sites much so this is all mostly foreign to me. I do have my tanks up on the discord as do many other people. My daughter helps me with that. You can always join it and have a look. Leave if you want after. But if you are truly curious its all there.
I understand about "the science we were all taught". Ive been keeping fish since the 80s and was very skeptical about any changes that varied from what i read from even older books or heard from fish store owners as back in those days they held all the knowledge. But with the internet we have so much information available as long as we can learn to ask google the right way.
I also understand skepticism, i didnt believe any of this type of stuff was possible till i visited a fish store in the bay area of california that had very old deep substrate tanks with no water changes and minimal tech. Pretty sure ive seen the bigger fish co op guys do a video on it as well

Either way you should join the discord at least long enough to see the tanks. Lots of knowledge in that server too. Been keeping fish for close to 40 years now and still learn from the people there all the time. Lots of people there with and without father fish style tanks.
I dont know how to invite people there but you can join through his videos. (I think i remember joining from a video)

 

[FJB]

Many thanks. I am leaving you now.

 

[Trouser Cough]

Many thanks. I am leaving you now.

Is there a chance you may have sent that to us and a fish related comment to your wife(?)