I read similar stuff. It's been all over the net. I also read that the resistance is temporary....i.e. reversible as long as the repetitive antibiotic treatment is stopped for a prolonged period of time....The issues with resistance to antibiotics come from the fish food industry.....as we're consuming those same medicated fish...in turn the resistant strains are passed on to humans.
Is he doomed?! :(
- Thread starter philipraposo1982
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I read similar stuff. It's been all over the net. I also read that the resistance is temporary....i.e. reversible as long as the repetitive antibiotic treatment is stopped for a prolonged period of time....The issues with resistance to antibiotics come from the fish food industry.....as we're consuming those same medicated fish...in turn the resistant strains are passed on to humans.
I totally agree. Antibiotics like metro and seachem kanaplex are prohibited in Europe for use on ornamental fish....However, the OP used antibiotic here following the advise of the majority and some of it was warranted for.....Also, it is impossible to diagnose a bacterial strain in home conditions....I am however, able to diagnose by symptoms if it is a bacterial or parasitic issue, and if the OPs fish had ever had a bacterial infection, it would have been long dead.....
Yes. So I tend to be a minimalist with fish meds, excepting the occasional bit of salt, occasional melafix, occasional meth blue, I rarely use (or need) them. Never prophylactically, only on fish with clear and present evidence or symptoms.
The hole in his head is really to small for my to get any kind of sample from to check it under a scope.
His feces continue to come out with no parasites or s.vortens or anything at all that would resemble a living parasite or eggs.
If the hole does open up a bit more maybe I can do a scrape and see if the s.vortens resides there.
As far as letting him rest from meds this is my plan. I am a little hesitant to believe this is the right call only because after my first attempt at killing off this Kai was doing better but never fille healed. Clear poops returned fairly quickly if they ever left at all.
The hole then filled and burst open. This just doesn't happen to a healthy fish and kanaplex wasn't going to be the answer. Only helps with bacterial issues with the wound.
So what ever cause the hole to fill with pus and burst open again is still there. At least how I see it.
So not treating meds and feeding good food and keeping a well maintained tank is what I have always done.
His feces continue to come out with no parasites or s.vortens or anything at all that would resemble a living parasite or eggs.
If the hole does open up a bit more maybe I can do a scrape and see if the s.vortens resides there.
As far as letting him rest from meds this is my plan. I am a little hesitant to believe this is the right call only because after my first attempt at killing off this Kai was doing better but never fille healed. Clear poops returned fairly quickly if they ever left at all.
The hole then filled and burst open. This just doesn't happen to a healthy fish and kanaplex wasn't going to be the answer. Only helps with bacterial issues with the wound.
So what ever cause the hole to fill with pus and burst open again is still there. At least how I see it.
So not treating meds and feeding good food and keeping a well maintained tank is what I have always done.
You just need to get a scrape over and around it....not inside it.
Also, how well your microscope can magnify the sample is also of importance as some things are way too small to see....
Like very clearly see up to x250 and x400
Just got home.from.work.and one of his pits near the eye definitely looks bigger than normal today...
What does this even mean..
Just got home.from.work.and one of his pits near the eye definitely looks bigger than normal today...
What does this even mean..
Absolutely.
I also tend to be a minimalist with fish meds, in fact I rarely have to use them, other than the odd fish that comes in looking good, then no doubt due to the stress of being bagged, shipped, etc, comes down with symptoms of whatever. In fact the only meds that I have used in years now, is medicated food. (NLS Hex-Shield) My philosophy has always been to start small, and go from there. My regular groups of fish don't get sick, and if they do it's from old age, cancerous growths or tumours, or something one might expect to see towards the end of the life of an otherwise healthy fish.
Same here, a complete minimalist when it comes to meds. I've had to use antibacterial meds only a few times in all the years I've kept fish....And only one of the times I've used them with clear knowledge on the issue. and a clear positive outcome. The other times I was just "chancing" it.....and I was mainly wrong. I treated parasites with antibiotics in the past, lol 
Now I know better...
I consider parasites and worms the main issues in fish, that are also triggers of secondary infections...Newly purchased fish carry them, and its a good idea relieving them from those as early as possible as the fish will have a better immune system because of that. So I am for preventative antiparasitic/deworming treatment. My 3 meds of choice at the moment are hex-shiled, flubendazole and then finally praziquantel, in that order as prazi is very stable in water and should not be mixed with other meds....
Seachem Kanaplex is handy to have on hand if one accidentally introduces virulent bacterial strains like columnaris and needs to act fast....But this is very rare, at least in my experience, and in no way would I use antibiotic anymore without being convinced about the issue being bacterial....plus the antibiotic has to be effective against that particular issue...so research is essential prior to jumping to conclusions...
Apart from that, a well maintained, non-overstocked tank is a must long term. Clean water does wonders....especially to weak newly purchased fish....Daily water changes will prevent 99% of the problems, and fix the majority of problems, and in the 1% cases when there is a genuine issue, daily water changes will buy you time to figure out what the problem is, and best way to treat it....
Now I know better...I consider parasites and worms the main issues in fish, that are also triggers of secondary infections...Newly purchased fish carry them, and its a good idea relieving them from those as early as possible as the fish will have a better immune system because of that. So I am for preventative antiparasitic/deworming treatment. My 3 meds of choice at the moment are hex-shiled, flubendazole and then finally praziquantel, in that order as prazi is very stable in water and should not be mixed with other meds....
Seachem Kanaplex is handy to have on hand if one accidentally introduces virulent bacterial strains like columnaris and needs to act fast....But this is very rare, at least in my experience, and in no way would I use antibiotic anymore without being convinced about the issue being bacterial....plus the antibiotic has to be effective against that particular issue...so research is essential prior to jumping to conclusions...
Apart from that, a well maintained, non-overstocked tank is a must long term. Clean water does wonders....especially to weak newly purchased fish....Daily water changes will prevent 99% of the problems, and fix the majority of problems, and in the 1% cases when there is a genuine issue, daily water changes will buy you time to figure out what the problem is, and best way to treat it....
To quote myself, ha, ha..
But for example, in terms of columnaris, scientific papers state that the rate of survival of columnaris can be affected by primary issues like parasites, worms. Meaning that if a fish that carries parasites also contracts columnaris or any other virulent bacterial strain, it's got way less chance of survival even if treated with the correct meds....The fish may have been just fine dealing with parasites but a secondary bacterial issue will knock it out, leading the pet owner to believe the issue was only bacterial, and even leading them to believe they dealt with some sort of "resistant" bacterial strain....
Why are you now discussing columnaris?
While I understand your opinion on Metronidazole vs Flubendazole, the reality is that metro has worked for probably millions of cases of spiro/hex in fish, here in North America. It's also typically the drug of choice, or at the least certainly one of the top drugs, recommended by experts in this field, such as Dr. Edward J. Noga. And most importantly, here in NA it is readily available, where other meds aren't. When used appropriately, and correct dosages used, I have never experienced any long term health issues in fish that I have treated. Ditto to Levamisole, and ditto to Kanaplex. I don't see any point in going on ad naseum about the meds that were used on this fish, or what the OP woulda/coulda/shoulda used. That part of this tale is now ancient history. Time to move forward.
While I understand your opinion on Metronidazole vs Flubendazole, the reality is that metro has worked for probably millions of cases of spiro/hex in fish, here in North America. It's also typically the drug of choice, or at the least certainly one of the top drugs, recommended by experts in this field, such as Dr. Edward J. Noga. And most importantly, here in NA it is readily available, where other meds aren't. When used appropriately, and correct dosages used, I have never experienced any long term health issues in fish that I have treated. Ditto to Levamisole, and ditto to Kanaplex. I don't see any point in going on ad naseum about the meds that were used on this fish, or what the OP woulda/coulda/shoulda used. That part of this tale is now ancient history. Time to move forward.
