Is this ich?

[Texas1203]

Day 4: Today was day 4 of changing 1/3 water and vacuuming substrate. I’ve been adding the ich x and ultimate water conditioner daily. For two days I did not feed garlic infused food. Today I am going back to soaking food overnight in garlic. When I was feeding garlic waiting for meds to arrive there was not much flashing going on. Since I have stopped the garlic infused food, flashing is at an all time high. Poor guys just do not stop rubbing, banging into stuff, and of course trying to escape. I will continue to do water changes and garlic food until the bottle of meds is out. If I have to, I will order another bottle. The temp has been around 84F. I did receive a new heater, but I will wait until tomorrow to install (need to read directions). Shrimp, snails, and plants still seem fine. I’m wondering if I should continue to dose plant food while treating. I use 2hraquarist API for the plants. I did not dose plant food for three days. I think I will dose at night tonight…. Unless anyone out there has better advice…..

 

[Rocksor]

The heat doesn't have to be as high as 84F to speed up the lifecycle of ich. It doesn't get any faster between 78f-84f.

I'm wondering if it could b epistylis

10.2.4. Epistylis in tropical fish

Epistylis is a very common and very unrecognized fish disease. It is commonly confused with ich.

aquariumscience.org

 

[Texas1203]

Day 5: The temp is up to 85F. I had read somewhere that the ich will stop reproduction at 86F. Between 83F-84F it helps them to drop off the fish sooner, speeding up the life cycle. Of course, there are a lot of conflicting advice on the internet. I think I will leave it for a few more days then turn it back down. I am not sure if the meds are working. Butterfly seems absolutely fine, still eating. The ropes do not appear to be eating or interested in food. I will try to attach a video. They just rub and swim swim real fast with their heads out the water every once in a while. I do see less white dots on the body, so I am assuming they are still present in the gills where I can’t see. They are not swimming erratically anymore, but still rubbing.
I have not done a w/c yet, I will wait until the afternoon when it warms up a bit (i use a python to do water changes).

https://youtube.com/shorts/0gkAoY9xUBo?feature=share

 

[Rocksor]

Day 5: The temp is up to 85F. I had read somewhere that the ich will stop reproduction at 86F. Between 83F-84F it helps them to drop off the fish sooner, speeding up the life cycle. Of course, there are a lot of conflicting advice on the internet. I think I will leave it for a few more days then turn it back down. I am not sure if the meds are working. Butterfly seems absolutely fine, still eating. The ropes do not appear to be eating or interested in food. I will try to attach a video. They just rub and swim swim real fast with their heads out the water every once in a while. I do see less white dots on the body, so I am assuming they are still present in the gills where I can’t see. They are not swimming erratically anymore, but still rubbing.
I have not done a w/c yet, I will wait until the afternoon when it warms up a bit (i use a python to do water changes).

https://youtube.com/shorts/0gkAoY9xUBo?feature=share

This is why I rely on scientific studies

CIR920/FA006: Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (White Spot) Infections in Fish

Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (Ich) is a protozoan parasite that can cause severe losses in aquaculture and aquariums. It is introduced via new fish, substrates, plants, or equipment. Preventive measures include quarantining and treating new fish, holding plants without fish, and disinfecting...

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

https://eafp.org/download/2014-volume34/issue_5/34-5-182-Maceda-Veiga.pdf

Basically, it won't go any faster than 3 days at 83-84f when compared to ~78F. The purpose of heat is to get the ich exposed to chemicals during their vulnerable stage (swarming stage)
Noga 2010 and Dickerson 2006 state temperature is lethal above 30C (86F). However, our heater temperature/digital thermometer may be lower by 1-3 degrees, so verification would be needed with a scientific thermometer.

And another study shows

Hydrogen peroxide and chlorine dioxide against parasite <i>Ichthyophthirius multifiliis</i> (Protozoa, Ciliophora) in jundiá fingerlings

ABSTRACT: Ichthyophthiriasis is a worldwide fish disease with great financial impact on...

www.scielo.br

"Confinement and management stress under high temperature (approximately 29.5°C) were enough to trigger protozoan infection in the specimens."
- Basically, at 85.1F, specimens became infected with ich.

https://eafp.org/download/2014-volume34/issue_5/34-5-182-Maceda-Veiga.pdf

What these studies don't dispute is applying a chemical to the vulnerable stage of ich to control and eventually remove it.

At 86F, reproduction maybe disrupted but not 100% stopped from my experience. I still saw new white spot form on day 7 of a heat treatment, albeit less, hence not 100% stopped. I've seen this quite a few times, considering the life cycle doesn't go any faster than 3 days.

 

[Texas1203]

This is why I rely on scientific studies

CIR920/FA006: Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (White Spot) Infections in Fish

Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (Ich) is a protozoan parasite that can cause severe losses in aquaculture and aquariums. It is introduced via new fish, substrates, plants, or equipment. Preventive measures include quarantining and treating new fish, holding plants without fish, and disinfecting...

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

https://eafp.org/download/2014-volume34/issue_5/34-5-182-Maceda-Veiga.pdf

Basically, it won't go any faster than 3 days at 83-84f when compared to ~78F. The purpose of heat is to get the ich exposed to chemicals during their vulnerable stage (swarming stage)
Noga 2010 and Dickerson 2006 state temperature is lethal above 30C (86F). However, our heater temperature/digital thermometer may be lower by 1-3 degrees, so verification would be needed with a scientific thermometer.

And another study shows

Hydrogen peroxide and chlorine dioxide against parasite <i>Ichthyophthirius multifiliis</i> (Protozoa, Ciliophora) in jundiá fingerlings

ABSTRACT: Ichthyophthiriasis is a worldwide fish disease with great financial impact on...

www.scielo.br

"Confinement and management stress under high temperature (approximately 29.5°C) were enough to trigger protozoan infection in the specimens."
- Basically, at 85.1F, specimens became infected with ich.

https://eafp.org/download/2014-volume34/issue_5/34-5-182-Maceda-Veiga.pdf

What these studies don't dispute is applying a chemical to the vulnerable stage of ich to control and eventually remove it.

At 86F, reproduction maybe disrupted but not 100% stopped from my experience. I still saw new white spot form on day 7 of a heat treatment, albeit less, hence not 100% stopped. I've seen this quite a few times, considering the life cycle doesn't go any faster than 3 days.

Those were very informative reads. I agree that raising temps speeds up the life cycle so the meds can kill the free swimming parasites. If you would like further reading I suggest this paper: https://aquaculture.ca.uky.edu/site...edu/files/srac_476_ich_white_spot_disease.pdf

I did turn heat down to 83… maybe it will lessen the stress. But my poor ropes are just restless and rubbing. ?

 

[Texas1203]

Day 7: Today will be one week of treatment. African Butterfly fish seems absolutely fine. One rope seems to be doing better. I put garlic infused tilapia in the tank lastnight and it appears someone ate most of it. I still have one rope who for 3 days has not stopped going up and down the tank near the intake. I cannot see any more white spots, so I’m thinking they may possibly be in the gills still. I am worried about this one fish, does anyone know how long they can go without eating? Or how long until this behavior stresses the fish to the point of death?

 

[Texas1203]

Day 8: I only see one spot on one rope (not saying there isn’t more). My gray rope seems to be doing much better. She is back to cave dwelling and peeking from behind rocks.
The African Butterfly is fine and eating fine. Shrimp, snails are fine. Plants are begging to look a little disturbed.
My olive colored rope is still swimming erratically. Up and down, scrape the gravel, up and down. I have a really bad feeling she is not going to make it. I think it’s going on day 5 of this behavior, and she doesn’t stop. She may rest for a minute but then right back at it. I’m also starting to think there is more than just ich going on with her. She was the one who hid in the castle all the time, while the grey one would explore. Going to continue to treat with ich x until the bottle is gone.

 

[Deadeye]

Wish I could help with the rope, I don’t know much about them though.
May just be stressed with the high temp. My fish got really active during ich treatment.
Glad to hear the ich is on its way out!

 

[Texas1203]

Wish I could help with the rope, I don’t know much about them though.
May just be stressed with the high temp. My fish got really active during ich treatment.
Glad to hear the ich is on its way out!

I did turn heat back to the normal 80F today when I did water change. It was at about 84 maybe a wee lower. I just can’t watch her suffer anymore, so I’m slowly putting everything back to the normal parameters. I was concerned and did a water test today just to check parameters.

I know that ich x has a dye in. It also says that if using a nessler test kit the ammonia readings may be high. I currently use api master kit, which after researching is a sylicate based test kit. My pH is usually around 7.4 to 7.6 today it read maybe 6.4 to 6.6, the colors were not really decipherable. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0 (possible 5 but waay lighter than 5). I am not sure if my pH is really wacked or if the dye is affecting the test. Would a pH change that drastic be hurting the stresses fish?

 

[Texas1203]

Day 9: I woke up today and could not find my grey rope. I thought maybe she was hiding behind the rocks. Well I eventually found her. Some how last night she escaped from the tank. I found her stiff as board on the floor. I had tapped up the holes around the intake/outtake hoses. I began to inspect those and sure enough she was able to push her way through the tape around in the output. The tape was just barely on. I’m pretty bummed because she was the one who seemed to be doing better. I have not done the daily dosage of ich meds yet today. The other rope is still at it… up and down and up and down… all day all night. I am seriously considering stopping this treatment. I can’t believe the stress this one fish is experiencing. The butterfly is still fine, still eating.