I've Seen The Light- UGF's SUCK

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
So, this has been pushed to page 3 so soon.
Like I had mentioned, some will get it, most will not.
It could have been the title that got it passed over???
Would have thought there would have been more interest than this.
But I also thought there would be more people using an easy to build, 20 micron filtration system.
Oh well, go figure.
 
Oh! I for one am glad you decided to post all of this!

I am only in the stand building stages of my largest tank to date (120gal! lol) and this seems so right!

Not to derail but John, could you point me in the direction of the "easy to build 20 micron" filtration?

Thanks guys! This kind of info is part of what makes MFK the best. Period!
 
im trying to soak all this in! these are the type of threads that make this the best fishkeeping site. good healthy debates packed with info and diy ideas. I wish i had something to add but i have no experience with these types of filtration
 
CA-Delta;4418007; said:
I know what you mean.
I knew there was a danger this could happen but it is truely not directed toward you. I felt accurately repeating the posts was more important than potentially offending you. Sorry :)
If you would like my rationale for that comment feel free to PM as discussing it in this thread would only serve to derail the thread. As for any technical aspect of the construction, that is fair game. Give me a minute I'll post after dinner.

Remember, I type slow.
Click to expand...

No offence taken, just felt I should clarify my short response from the previous thread. Nice job on this.
 
Not to derail but John, could you point me in the direction of the "easy to build 20 micron" filtration?

Not a derail at all..
The return flow from this can drive the "UUGF/J"-unconventional under gravel filter/jet system.
P1000472.jpg

As you can see, the only big choice here is the pump used.
The rest is pretty straight forward plumbing.
The whole house water filters are an excellent and effective way to keep your water clean.
Simple to service.
Cartridge replacements are cheap, though mine would get re used after a bleach/water soak and rinse.
HOB001.jpg

You even have a choice as to how they can be used.
How cool is that, eh...
 
Thanks for the clarification there!

I thought that was what you were aiming at.

A few more question though...

This does effectively turn it all into a pressure system, right?
Which means that the pump needs to push through the filtration instead of returning it from (as in a sump.), right? I have a MAG12 on standby that I plan on using for this 120gal. will it handle a pressure application like this?

Also, I want to maximize my mechanical filtration without being detrimental to the biological. How would this be accomplished in the most efficient (low budget) manner? In my original plans/thoughts I was going with three stages of filter socks and then as much submerged bio media that I can afford (I cannot justify it but I am not a great fan of the trickle filters even though I am not arguing with their effectiveness)

The reason I am so interested in your UGJ setup CA-Delta is to keep my substrate/bottom clean. I do not want to rely on it for the main biological filtration. I'll happily accept whatever it contributes though.

Providing that I am right about the push vs. pull here, How in the world do I combine this with a sump style set-up? Can it be done?

Thanks Guys!
 
It is indeed a closed loop or pressure system.
A Mag 12 would be a good choice.
I don't know how Mechanical filtration would "detrimentally" affect your biological filtration as long as you have sufficient flow of water.
It would be quite simple to incorporate with a sump. Simply divert the return from the sump to the mechanical filters and back to the RUGF/UGJ.
As for low budget, you might consider doing something similar to my 100 setup http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325689 and design the drain for a sump but not add it until later when you can better afford it.
The "danger" is if you do this it will become quickly apparent that a sump is optional. ;)
 
design the drain for a sump but not add it until later when you can better afford it.
The "danger" is if you do this it will become quickly apparent that a sump is optional.

Might only be me, but it seems when I take a system that does one or two things very well and try to get it to do just a bit more, it leads the overall performance to suffer.
Like putting off road tires on a smooth street ride.

I do not want to rely on it for the main biological filtration

Not sure why you would be reluctant.
Would think there is little difference between a gravel bed or a tub full of media.
You would need a series of incredible brain farts to damage either. I know, because my grey matter has suffered with bouts of flatulence often.
The positive is nature designed these helpful bacteria to be tough little cookies. It takes quite a bit to wipe them out.
 
Great discussion guys! These are the threads I love. Good stuff. My take on the subject:

I have a deep tank (44") and cleaning substrate sucks. There's some kind of multiplier formula as far as the deeper the tank in relation to it's sucky-ness. Cleaning anything really is not enjoyable for me so the goal of my filtration is to minimize physical labor. Oddly, I enjoy plumbing, so spending hours planning and building a plumbing project to save 5 minutes work is worth it!

I tried an overflow sump system with UGJ to push poo to the overflow. It just didn't work. I even tried adding lower intakes to collect the lower heavier stuff. Didn't seem to get enough suction to pull the heavy stuff into the drain. I always found areas like "dust bunnies under the couch" swirling around in a corner or by a log or something.

I tried sumps and canister filters separately and they work but I was forcing, for example, my canister to also do some bio-filtration by adding bio balls to it. This takes away valuable real-estate for mechanical filtration. And sump systems just don't have the high pressure to polish water. Returns and intakes have to be planed to not syphon when power is lost.......

So far what I have learned is sump systems are great for bio filtration, nitrate removal, over water quality performance with the added benefit of increasing water quantity and a good hiding place for heaters and auto water change systems.

Canister filters are great at mechanical filtration and water polishing.

and:

It's not "efficient" or "ideal" to force a canister filter to do bio filtration and vice versa. It's possible but not "ideal". So I embraced the positives of each system.

I added a canister filter to the low part of the tank. The canister filter is ideal for mechanical filtration, just what I needed for the lower part of the tank. I set up the return to push water across the substrate towards the intake. The intake actually pulls anything within a foot, I can tell when feeding. I kept the overflow/sump system for bio filtration and the trickle water changer system. Honestly this is the best system I have come across to date. You get the best of both types of filtration.

I use sand because of it's compacting qualities. Yes, now the compacting sand is a good thing! It's very hard for "dirt" to get inside or below the sand. Almost no gravel vac required. I don't have a perfect system so "dust bunny" areas need a quick vacuum but really not a big deal. I'm not going every couple inches and sticking the gravel vac into the sand......

The sump system, hardly look at it. I have a pad at the top of my bio tower I change out once a month or so. It's primary job is bio filtration, auto water changer and hiding the heaters.

Canister filters have to be change out unfortunately. I'm looking into a back flushing type canister in the future but at the moment I'm swapping filters every couple weeks.

I do about 1 hour of work per tank every two weeks. Hopefully this is good stuff for someone. You can tell I have all kinds of time to pontificate..........
 
I just set up my tanks again here at my new home and I ditched the UGF entirely. Mostly to head in a different direction (Not a big fan of gravel anymore)
 
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