I've Seen The Light- UGF's SUCK

[KaiserSousay]

bio material is designed to not clog.
Not sure how you could design media to not clog.
You provide surface area that is available to free flowing bacteria, but detritus flows free also.
Even a system using 20/30 micron filtering will allow the bio media to clog.
It just takes allot longer.
Some of that stuff will always attach to your media, smothering the bacteria or displacing it.
Example,
You set up a system, start a fishless cycle.
With no waste to deal with you end up with a healthy bacterial colony in your bio media.
Cycle completes and you add your fish.
Waste begins to circulate.
You notice no changes to your water parameters as your bio media begins to "gunk up". The in tank bacteria has grown in proportion to any smothering in your bio media.
All seems well.
You do some vigorous tank maintenance or redecorating and end up with a cloudy water situation.
Happens all the time.
I really don`t think the average guy can come up with a way to keep the media completely gunk free.
Nor do I think you need to do that.
Just being aware of whats` going on and an occasional media cleaning is all that is needed
$0.02

 

['vspec']

Each environment & inhabitancy is different, as such, once Aquarius understandings reach the point of pro actively addressing causality concerns, then its logically evaluated on a case by case basis.

Fundamentally if falls to a chosen line between bias natures vs natural effectiveness, and total exposure to the entire scope of deployable means.

Its a sometimes unfortunate drawback in a stumble to advance as a collective, however thats all that's needed to pigeon hole you from someone else perspective.
On a positive note, regardless of the above, all roads eventually lead to the exact same question. "WHY"

 

[Crispy]

Finally a thread that is actually picking some brains... great posts guys, glad I stumbled onto this one.

Subscribed... hopefully can add my $0.02 in the future after digesting it all.

 

[fg4608]

The bacteria colony itself will eventually clog the bio media itself, right? It would take a relatively longer time unless there is some unbalance in the system, but they to excrement waste and die eventually...

 

['vspec']

Smothering of bacteria! , you know i dont fully subscribe to this theory. Bacteria are govern by surface tension of all masses surrounding them to aid in transportation regardless. Piece of crud lodges, its engulfed based on growth potentials. Youve got to bring it into perspective - bacteria are $%^ing tiny and in quantified numbering.

IMO, the only time smothering could be used in this context is in marine tanks, where coralline algae essentially cap rock pores trapping contents inside. However this is beneficial for anaerobic bacteria strains and still govern by some form of diffusion.

Touching on FG's question, bacteria in some situations can be seen to produce a bio-slime for lack of a better word, however its negative, they go through the same processes as anything else living on this world, when they die, they become the nutrient fuel source for the next in line.

The rules for bacteria change based on the environment. Lets look at 2 case points opposite ends of the spectrum using sand as the substrate.

• Salt - fast bacterial metabolisms. sand low detritus trapping potentials, massive focus on anaerobic availability.
• Acidic - below 7ph bacterial metabolisms slow, so sand as your media is less efficient as opposed to salt. still - sand low detritus trapping potentials.

Im of the opinion, nature does it best with equilibriums, & without your help I might add, so I gear my thinking to maximising this, so thats my solid foundation to provide the entire scope for processing. people often get to caught up in being creative or following whats on the band wagon, or worst yet, not letting go of concepts when that vehicle left long ago for good reason. Each to their own as far as im concerned.

I take comfort in the fact I produce bullet proof tanks. I aim to understand the environment completely by way of interactions and cause & effect. I care little for coined phrases or gimmicks such as UG filtering - cause ive got diffusion for that if you know what im saying.

 

[Egon]

bio material is designed to not clog.
Not sure how you could design media to not clog.
You provide surface area that is available to free flowing bacteria, but detritus flows free also.
Even a system using 20/30 micron filtering will allow the bio media to clog.
It just takes allot longer.
Some of that stuff will always attach to your media, smothering the bacteria or displacing it.

Your quoting me so I'll answer, I didn't design the bio media personally. I'm an engineer but more into robotics not viscus flow and/or any of that chemical stuff. All my data is from personal experience alone, I haven't actually done a control tank and so on. If the question is how to design something, that would be better suited in another thread or college.

As far as media not clogging I will post a picture of my bio tower. It just doesn't seem to clog. IMO. The flow is very strong and seems to keep the bio balls clean? The bio balls are not designed to mechanically filter so everything just passes through them. I believe, this was intentional, other wise we would just cut up PVC plumbing and use it as bio media. So, I stand by my above statement: "Bio media is designed to not clog". If it does clog, then it's being used in the wrong application.

 

[KaiserSousay]

It just doesn't seem to clog.

That`s my point.
This is a slow process. The better your mechanical media, the slower it will be.
Over time you might notice algae control is getting a bit harder. You might find your twice a month water changes need to be done more often.
You attribute the increase in nitrate levels to fish growth.
The tank has matured to having "X" amount of 6+ in. fish along with some 2 in. juvies and a few surviving inchlings from the last spawn.
That`s where you think all your nitrate is coming from.
Good portion is coming from your fish, for sure.
But it is also coming from media/tank surfaces that have had their surfaces coated with gunk.
When the gunk gets thick enough it chokes off the oxygen supply to your bacterial colony turning them from being beneficial into nitrate factories.
Not an "overnight" process.
Takes a really long time even in well managed tanks.
But it does happen.
It`s nature doing it`s thing. You can`t stop it from happening.
You can interrupt the process with "normal" maintenance routines.
Process is sped up in neglected tanks.
Tanks where in tank cleaning is poorly done, if done at all.
Tanks whose owners think moving debris from the tank into a filters media gets rid of the negative effects of that debris, so they rarely clean their filters.
Nothing in this process is going to lead to someone waking up in the morning to a tank of dead fish.
This is just a natural process in an unnatural, man made environment.
The only thing I was getting at is there is no such thing as "Clog Proof" media.
That would be unnatural.

 

['vspec']

When the gunk gets thick enough it chokes off the oxygen supply to your bacterial colony turning them from being beneficial into nitrate factories.

We might need to redefine alittle here bud.

If this is in regards to bioballs , then this situation is unavoidable regardless using your above statement.
They become nitrate factories by default because
A) you have it in a high oxygenated environment to start with, &/or
B) your running bioballs - period

Thats its job, to detoxify quickly the first 2 elements, leaving trates.

If its O2 limited or devoid, then for you, your in luck, one less water change for you this week lol

I'll agree though, there is no such thing as clog proof media unless your looking at bacteria on the glass in an empty tank. For the aerobic side of things, fast agitating flow to shake things up will never hurt. For anaerobic, go grab a beer & stay the heck away from it. Cause the only place you'll find it is in the deeper regions of a bed, rocks or something specifically designed to cater for it in most cases.

 

[Egon]

Good stuff guys! I love this kind of discussions and I'm getting a lot from it. Lots of info, nothing personal just some good back and fourth information exchange.

Clog proof = snag proof, relative to a fishing lure

 

[CA-Delta]

There is indeed a lot of good exchange going on here.[QUOTE='vspec';445987;44598755] I take comfort in the fact I produce bullet proof tanks. I aim to understand the environment completely by way of interactions and cause & effect. I care little for coined phrases or gimmick sh^t such as UG filtering - cause ive got diffusion for that if you know what im saying.[/QUOTE]
OK bud, I'll bite.
This is my definition of a gimmick :http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346575
Why, in your opinion, is UG filtering a gimmick ?
I don't know how exactly you are using "diffusion" as your filtration. I would be interested in seeng an example. Perhaps you could point me toward a thread as a simple search comes up empty.
If it is of a superior nature then it is worthy of closer inspection.

I also pride myself in producing bulletproof setups.
Being a student of history (although Puttenham is not one of my favorites) and having started in this hobby with a UGF my systems so far have been based on UG filtration. With my current offering I certainly could be guilty of reinventing the wheel. I am in no way saying there isn't a better way. I am saying I haven't found it yet. I give considerable thought to ease of service and operating expense. I have to admit, I give equal thought to how my plumbing and wiring will appear as I have a need for it to be as attractive as the tank itself.
I also pay little attention to "coined phrases or gimmick sh^t".
If you go back and read the intro to this thread you will see that the goal is to reduce or eliminate the need to vacuum the substrate. Does your method of filtration meet this need ? If it does and it is equally cheap and easy to maintain then certainly it would be a viable alternative. Perhaps you could share your knowledge of diffusion ,as it relates to this goal, either here or in a PM.