Just wanna discuss nitrates

[FreshyFresh]

I am curious, is the nitrates only an issue at the younger age of the rays because you folks tend to feed a lot and often to ensure good growth and development? or is the kind of feeding habit the whole life of the ray?

My thought that if as adults you can go to a single feeding it would likely be easier to control nitrates.

Nitrates build-up is absolutely directly related to the amount of food added to the tank. More food added will always = higher nitrate creep.

Like said above, I don't believe that at a ~6yr lifespan means triple digit nitrates are harmless. Way too many other factors at play given nitrates aren't the only 'important' water parameter.

IMO, suggesting to folks in the hobby, especially new ones, to keep up on weekly WCs and monitor nitrates is more of a general way to keep everything in check.

 

[Bigfishnut]

It's crazy, I do several 5 gallon waterchanges per day on my 100 gallon grow out tank that has 2 pups in it. Last night I checked the nitrates for the first time in a while and was still above 80 ppm!! I'm doing 30+ gallons per day! It has a 30 gallon sump also, so 130 gallons total

 

[Woefulrelic]

It's crazy, I do several 5 gallon waterchanges per day on my 100 gallon grow out tank that has 2 pups in it. Last night I checked the nitrates for the first time in a while and was still above 80 ppm!! I'm doing 30+ gallons per day! It has a 30 gallon sump also, so 130 gallons total

Small water changes like that are REALLY inefficient for nitrate removal. Assuming you add 5 gallons back every change you are distributing the nitrates in the tank into a larger amount a water... only to do another change hours later. It's a lot more like removing 20 gallons than 30. Changing 30 gallons a day is way less efficient than changing 70 gallons every third day for this reason, even if you are adding more clean water.

I am curious, is the nitrates only an issue at the younger age of the rays because you folks tend to feed a lot and often to ensure good growth and development? or is the kind of feeding habit the whole life of the ray?

My thought that if as adults you can go to a single feeding it would likely be easier to control nitrates.

Rays always eat a lot, it's a growing hunger with spikes around maturity and spawning. Rays will eat their least as pups, and nitrates are impacted by the amount of food added as opposed to when. Rays are much more sensitive as pups, but I'd imagine much of the stigma is related to unprepared keepers getting an ammonia spike. Rays generally produce much more waste than average similar sized fish, so people put them in under cycled tanks. It's really difficult to add enough guppies to produce the amount of ammonia a single pup can produce. Ammonia is real toxic, and nitrites more so which will accumulate quickly in an undercycled tank. As they get older you can feed way less frequently, but depending on your setup and wc schedule it isn't necessarily easier to manage.

 

[FreshyFresh]

It's crazy, I do several 5 gallon waterchanges per day on my 100 gallon grow out tank that has 2 pups in it. Last night I checked the nitrates for the first time in a while and was still above 80 ppm!! I'm doing 30+ gallons per day! It has a 30 gallon sump also, so 130 gallons total

As it should be. Nitrate reduction in the tank is simple math. Change 50% of the water and you'll reduce your nitrate by ~50%. Change 10% of 100ppm nitrate water and you'll be around 90ppm. There's always going to be slight variances due to the test kits, the way we read them, etc.

 

[philipraposo1982]

It's crazy, I do several 5 gallon waterchanges per day on my 100 gallon grow out tank that has 2 pups in it. Last night I checked the nitrates for the first time in a while and was still above 80 ppm!! I'm doing 30+ gallons per day! It has a 30 gallon sump also, so 130 gallons total

hey,

Just curious if you had to take a educated guess, how much nitrates do you feel your fish generate in 24 hours? or per week?

 

[Bigfishnut]

hey,

Just curious if you had to take a educated guess, how much nitrates do you feel your fish generate in 24 hours? or per week?

Oh man...that's a lot of math!! Ok, it's a 130 gallon total system...on average I do 30g a day water change. As of now nitrates are 80ppm. Id have to assume they are holding kinda level at 80...so about 20ppm a day of 130 gallons...not sure what unit of measurement to use for actual nitrates produced daily

 

[Bigfishnut]

There are a lot of things to factor here...any uneaten food particals that make it into the filters and decompose would break down to produce nitrate as an end product. I'm sure there's lots of thing that contribute to the final total besides just the ammonia that the rays produce

 

[Dieselhybrid]

i feed 4 x daily for smaller rays, 2 x for adults. but the amount of food the adults take n the amount of poop is many times crazier than the smaller ones. i should cut down to once a day tbh but i think i've spoilt them since young so they're like 24/7 hungry. Plus i shifted to 80% pellet diet and that really makes the poop a lot worse lol,

Pups and smaller rays are fed almost constantly by family members. I've never had one overeat like goldfish. feed until they refuse as often as we can fit in daily. 2-6 times. Big Rays get fed 2-3 times daily. When I travel for consulting work, family and friends take over and big rays drop to 1 maybe 2 times daily and pups 2-3. I count this as their off days.

Can I ask why you switch to a pellet diet? I like that they are fortified but I was breaking the bank buying quality pellets. I couldn't imagine feeding 80% pellets now and the costs. I catch my own fish to feed and just deep freeze (to sashimi standards) them to kill any parasite and bacteria as even smelt and tilapia was getting to expensive for my cheap self.

 

[philipraposo1982]

I got curious

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php

6 water changes a day at 5 gallons each from 100g tank = to only 22.62% of the origional water changed after 30 days!!

now..

1 water change a day at 30 gallons from 100g tank = to a whopping 100% of the water changed after only 25 days!!

This is why its so critical to analyse your water change schedule and do whats best for your fish. Think about not changing over 75% of the water for a month in your ray tank.

 

[Bigfishnut]

I got curious

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php

6 water changes a day at 5 gallons each from 100g tank = to only 22.62% of the origional water changed after 30 days!!

now..

1 water change a day at 30 gallons from 100g tank = to a whopping 100% of the water changed after only 25 days!!

This is why its so critical to analyse your water change schedule and do whats best for your fish. Think about not changing over 75% of the water for a month in your ray tank.

I appreciate that...it makes perfect sense. I will adjust my routine. I have sort of a thing about consistency, always figured it was better to keep the parameters consistent as opposed to making a drastic change (even for the better) seems like less stress to the fish