live feeders for snakes

[Louie]

I know I've mentioned this before, but for those who are against live feedings; it's all about the method. I think its funny that many professional breeders (Brian Barczyk, Kevin McCurley [NERD], Greg Graziani, Ralph Davis, etc etc) have all admitted to feeding live to their snakes and have been doing so for years. Most of them claim they've never had a rodent attack a snake. Starting adding up the numbers (# of prey items per snake each week for lets say, 5 yrs)...and you'll see just how little risk there is, if it is done correctly.

Now I will agree that dead prey is safer than live prey, hands down. But in reality, the risk is a lot smaller than people make it out to be, when its done right.

And this isn't always the case, but everytime I run into someone who is so opposed to live, its usually a noob to the hobby. When I ask them why they feel this way, the reply usually involves hearing it from a petstore employee or some family member who knows nothing of the herp hobby.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I really don't think its fair to knock someone for feeding live if they have good success with it just because you don't like it. To each his own. It's like I don't like vegetarians telling me I'm wrong for eating meat.

And as far as my own collection goes, I generally prefer to feed live prey, but my pocketbook demands that I use f/t. However, if I have a picky snake, I have no qualms using live. I'm not going to let my snake starve just because I have sympathies for the "poor defenseless mouse." I dunno...Ive been working with animals too long; Ive been bitten by too many rats and mice to feel any kind of remorse.

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"I'm not going to let my snake starve just because I have sympathies for the "poor defenseless mouse"

No one said that .

live - risk of bite /scratch
thawed- no risk .That's the jist of it .

I have bred my king's while never feeding anything but thawed. Don't see any "edge" over feeding live.
All my snake's except 1 Arizona King have a great feeding responce with thawed and the one snake easy enough to wiggle the hopper.

Good thing I do feed thawed as no place to buy mice in my area and having to breed mice for 6 king's is something I rather not bother with,.
In NY that was different but again thawed is my choice and can't see a single reason not to.

If you like live fine I won't risk it no reason to . I buy from a great place and it's easy as can be feeding thawed and safe.

 

[Brooklynella]

I'm not necessarily implying that one way is better than the other, regardless of one's experience. My main point is, in a nutshell (and this applies to all aspects of the hobby and I'm not directing this at any one person), don't be so quick to judge something, especially if you don't know all the facts and/or have no real experience.

As said before, there's nothing wrong with f/t. All my snakes eat f/t. But please do not base your opposition to live-feeding solely on what one single person may have told you. As with anything, make sure you consider your sources. Not saying all petstore employees are incompetent rubes (I currently work at one and have been for 10 yrs), but sometimes when taking advice, who do you think is more credible? the petstore clerk who has been there for 4 months and may or may not have ever owned a snake in his life? or the breeder who has been producing hundreds of baby ball pythons year after year for nearly a decade?

One example of my early ignorance was that I was raised and taught for years that feeding savannah monitors rodents was horrible, that it made them aggressive and obese, and they weren't getting the right nutrition, etc etc. But I was basing my opinion on my experience with one sav that I kept for 2 yrs, and the advice of others who most had never even kept monitors. Eventually (after several debates with varanio and others) I learned the error of my thinking and was a little more open-minded after looking at the facts.

OK, so let me ask you a question: If you are the guy in the pet shop, what would you recommend they feed their snake? Why? Does it make sense to encourage feeding live over f/t?
I do agree that having more than one source of information is important but in many cases, there is no reason to overthink things either. I asked my local reptile center once why they stopped selling live food. The guy told me mice smelled horrible, needed food and water and cost too much. Good enough for me!

 

[Ophiuchus]

OK, so let me ask you a question: If you are the guy in the pet shop, what would you recommend they feed their snake? Why? Does it make sense to encourage feeding live over f/t?
I do agree that having more than one source of information is important but in many cases, there is no reason to overthink things either. I asked my local reptile center once why they stopped selling live food. The guy told me mice smelled horrible, needed food and water and cost too much. Good enough for me!

Depending on the species of snake they were feeding, my answer may vary. I would spell out the pros/cons of each option and let them make their own decision. I would never tell someone its my way or the highway. That's a noobie thing to do and I'm above that sort of thing. However, I would definitely tell them "this may not work for everyone but this is what I do and this is what works for me."

As someone mentioned before, there are risks of frozen/thawed as well as live.

 

[catfish hippy man (dylan)]

wow this thread is sucsessful!

 

[selki]

OK, so let me ask you a question: If you are the guy in the pet shop, what would you recommend they feed their snake? Why? Does it make sense to encourage feeding live over f/t?
I do agree that having more than one source of information is important but in many cases, there is no reason to overthink things either. I asked my local reptile center once why they stopped selling live food. The guy told me mice smelled horrible, needed food and water and cost too much. Good enough for me!

buying frozen food is the same s spending $ for food/water for the mice...while they can breed massively, i think in the long run ud save more money breeding than feeding frozen.

 

[reptech]

only two of my snakes will even eat frozen so thats why i feed live

 

[Ophiuchus]

only two of my snakes will even eat frozen so thats why i feed live

OMG OMG Never feed live! The rats will ravage your snake in mere seconds!

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Brooklynella]

buying frozen food is the same s spending $ for food/water for the mice...while they can breed massively, i think in the long run ud save more money breeding than feeding frozen.

That could be true but we're splitting hairs. We're talking about very inexpensive pets to feed in the first place (Snakes). Live mice/rats require regular upkeep, food and water, bedding, one of those wheels to keep them from chewing each others legs off, etc. while frozen requires...a freezer. So, from a $$ position, we really are splitting hairs.
On a large scale (Like prof breeders) I think it is downright silly to feed live from a $$ perspective. I'll easily buy a hundred frozen mice right now for a 1/3 of retail price by simply talking to the pet shop and striking a deal with them.

 

[Brooklynella]

OMG OMG Never feed live! The rats will ravage your snake in mere seconds!

Sorry, couldn't resist

Completely unnecessary response to an otherwise friendly, well thought out thread.

 

[Louie]

That could be true but we're splitting hairs. We're talking about very inexpensive pets to feed in the first place (Snakes). Live mice/rats require regular upkeep, food and water, bedding, one of those wheels to keep them from chewing each others legs off, etc. while frozen requires...a freezer. So, from a $$ position, we really are splitting hairs.
On a large scale (Like prof breeders) I think it is downright silly to feed live from a $$ perspective. I'll easily buy a hundred frozen mice right now for a 1/3 of retail price by simply talking to the pet shop and striking a deal with them.

Add the male mouse odor to that infact add that to cricket's to lol.
I am like you buy it no smell no fuss thaw it out when needed and feed them.

The pro which I agree with is you know what the mice are fed . However this has nothing to do with live vs not lol.

If I bred my own mice would still 'put them to sleep" before feeding them to my snakes. Won't risk the bite factor.