Live vs Pellets?

[snyder810]

umm you didnt cover parasites?
does that make for happy fish?

ok one most responsible fish keepers will quarantine the feeders in order to ensure good health or breed their own, two you stated you used goldfish known to be a terible feeder, and finally what proof do you have it was solely feeders that caused your fish parasites or is that just the easiest answer?

your argument against feeders really seems like an argument against irresponsible fish keeping rather than feeding fish other fish. or at least that's what i'm getting from it

 

[Journeykc]

umm you didnt cover parasites?
does that make for happy fish?

Did you even read my post? I carefully read every post from start to finish, even the biased and angry ones. Then I carefully worded and posted my comments, so as not to offend the narrowminded. I didn't work huh?
My post was aimed at taking the conversation to a place about the fish, not about our individual idals.
I think you answered your own question didn't you. Parasites obviously don't make for happy fish. I also didn't cover feeders, which is where you say your parasites come from. I simply said feed your fish what makes them happy. If you have let any of this thread seep in, then you will be beter off for it.
Isn't that why we are all here anyway? To learn from each other's experience and knowledge? Not to berate or bash the opinions of others.

If you never open your narrow mind, you will never view the big picture.

 

[sostoudt]

The main reason most of us keep fish is because we enjoy watching them. They keep us entertained and as with most pets, help make us happy. As pet owners, we want our pets to be not only healthy, but happy as well. A large part of being healthy is being happy or content. I know that conveying emotions to animals is another subject of its own, however, as pet owners we can tell when our pets aren't right (happy), and we try to fix it. As a society we have developed suitable premaid foods for all types of animals, and for that matter people. I would be much happier, and healthier with a nice grilled ribeye or chicken breast, than I would eating a double cheese or mcchicken. Same for my dog. She has no problem eating dog food when she is hungry, but still DROOLS waiting for me to cut her off a chunk of that steak. The same goes for our fish. Sure we can get them to eat flakes and pellets, but never giving them any food that will satisfy their natural cravings is not the way to have a healty, HAPPY fish.
My point, and what I have gleaned from reading all posts till now, is that healthy and happy are conjoined twins that cannot be seperated. There is no way your predatory fish can be 100% healthy eating only flakes and pellets, because your predatory fish is not truly happy. Pellets and flakes are great. They have made it possible for many people to raise and enjoy fish, that would not be able to without them. That being said, if you are able to, feed your fish not only what they need to just survive, feed them what will make them THRIVE. Which, if I'm not mistaken, was the OP's main question.

it is important to keep your animals mentally stimulated. you are right about that.
but you can do it your self by moving food around yourself, which is need some times to get eels to eat. you can also do some trick like the zoos do by putting food in hiding places or in a ball that only has one opening.
also natural craving arent always the best, just as a child craves candy. as a people craves deep fried food over baked.. some times its your job as the more intellegent being to interfere for the welfare of the animal. there definitely are crappy formulated foods out there. also ironically a good fish food is probably better formulated then most of the dog foods out there.

im not opposed to feeders(disease free) entirely just them being the bulk of a diet.

the key to good fish growth is good nutrition with lots of vitamins(pellets win against feeders in general in this category because most aquarist just cant provide a large variety of feeders.)
adequate exercise(flowrate of the water would control this in a aquarium, with ponds the sheer size would allow the fish to zoom along)
good water quality(nitrates will stunt your fishes growth)

 

[Journeykc]

it is important to keep your animals mentally stimulated. you are right about that.
but you can do it your self by moving food around yourself, which is need some times to get eels to eat. you can also do some trick like the zoos do by putting food in hiding places or in a ball that only has one opening.
also natural craving arent always the best, just as a child craves candy. as a people craves deep fried food over baked.. some times its your job as the more intellegent being to interfere for the welfare of the animal. there definitely are crappy formulated foods out there. also ironically a good fish food is probably better formulated then most of the dog foods out there.

im not opposed to feeders(disease free) entirely just them being the bulk of a diet.

the key to good fish growth is good nutrition with lots of vitamins(pellets win against feeders in general in this category because most aquarist just cant provide a large variety of feeders.)
adequate exercise(flowrate of the water would control this in a aquarium, with ponds the sheer size would allow the fish to zoom along)
good water quality(nitrates will stunt your fishes growth)

edit: btw try to avoid giving your dog food which is made of beef, most dogs dont digest beef well

Kids craving candy and you craving fatting deep fried foods are not the same gutteral, natural, INSTINCTUAL cravings that fish have for live foods. I am not talking about just feeders, I am talking about the natural variety of foods that fish have in the wild to eat. As far as the formulation of foods for different animals being inferior to fish foods is so close minded its not even funny. You think that the niche of keeping fish reels in that much $ support that it as an industry can better formulate food than the rest of the pet industries, dogs included? I don't think so.
Yes at times we must step in for the welfare of our animals, as with our children. That in no way means we must subject them to eating only vitamin packed rice cakes, waved in front of them on a string, or chalky flakes/pellets drug through the water. We see parents like that on 20/20 wonedering why their children have been taken from them!

 

[Journeykc]

Dragging food through the water is at best mental stimulation, but in no way life simulation.

 

[sostoudt]

Kids craving candy and you craving fatting deep fried foods are not the same gutteral, natural, INSTINCTUAL cravings that fish have for live foods. I am not talking about just feeders, I am talking about the natural variety of foods that fish have in the wild to eat. As far as the formulation of foods for different animals being inferior to fish foods is so close minded its not even funny. You think that the niche of keeping fish reels in that much $ support that it as an industry can better formulate food than the rest of the pet industries, dogs included? I don't think so.
Yes at times we must step in for the welfare of our animals, as with our children. That in no way means we must subject them to eating only vitamin packed rice cakes, waved in front of them on a string, or chalky flakes/pellets drug through the water. We see parents like that on 20/20 wonedering why their children have been taken from them!

i would say craving high caloric food is very natural for humans, you want to gain the most sustanince and unhealthy food will provide the most calories. your body even tells you this by your taste buds
what food do fish have to eat out in the wild thats not live food or plants, that they instinctually crave?

its much cheaper to produce fish foods then dogs foods which use more expensive meats. the meats that go into the dog food are more expensive then the fish and krill meal. so manufacturers get the cheapest parts and add more fillers to offset cost. to think there is no difference between foods for two different types of animals is so ignorant it is funny

dogs also have a instinctual urge to hunt, yet i dont see alot or even a few of people feeding them live squirrels or rabbits.

ok while your worried about fish social services coming and taking away your fish for feeding them pellets(a lil paranoid lol). i will be making sure mine are healthy by having the base of there diets include vitamins, minerals and good fatty acids.
and you will notice in none of my comments have i said pellets should be the sole food of the fish

 

[gt1009]

I only give live when neccesary. Right now I have 2 fish that eat it out of my 20+. One is my Payara, because he is a wild caught predator and in the wild he would only eat fish and I think it deserves to be fed live food. Second is a manguanese cichlid. This one gets live because it is recovering from an illness and won't take floating food because it doesn't like to go to the top of the tank. I give it feeders because it will eat them and nothing else right now. Soon as its better it is getting only pellets like the rest of my cichlids. They are safer and more nutritious.

 

[Journeykc]

i would say craving high caloric food is very natural for humans, you want to gain the most sustanince and unhealthy food will provide the most calories. your body even tells you this by your taste buds
what food do fish have to eat out in the wild thats not live food or plants, that they instinctually crave?

its much cheaper to produce fish foods then dogs foods which use more expensive meats. the meats that go into the dog food are more expensive then the fish and krill meal. so manufacturers get the cheapest parts and add more fillers to offset cost. to think there is no difference between foods for two different types of animals is so ignorant it is funny

dogs also have a instinctual urge to hunt, yet i dont see alot or even a few of people feeding them live squirrels or rabbits.

ok while your worried about fish social services coming and taking away your fish for feeding them pellets(a lil paranoid lol). i will be making sure mine are healthy by having the base of there diets include vitamins, minerals and good fatty acids.
and you will notice in none of my comments have i said pellets should be the sole food of the fish

Aight:

High caloric foods might be a natural instinct, however I doubt cavemen had Nutricional Facts on the back of the animal they just killed to let them know about the caloric count. They did however go for natural cravings and harvest/kill something to eat. Your body tells you it tastes good yes, but good doesn't mean fattening. I want to gain the most sustinence so I stay away from fatty foods because they may contain more calories, which are empty calories. Your argument makes no sense there.

I didn't say there was no difference in food, I said that there wasn't that big of difference in the research that goes into that food. Did you read it or just glance at it? I could be wrong, but I think that there are way more dog owners than fish owners. So it would stand to reason that there would be more of a demand for high quality dog food, than a small niche of the industry taken up by quality fish foods. I said nothing of the quality of the ingredients only of the research. To think that your pets diet is so much superior to others is not even funny, it is just sad that you live in such a small world.

You will also notice that in none of my comments have I said that 100% live is the best diet for a fish.

Feed your fish not just so they can survive, Feed them so they can THRIVE!

 

[Journeykc]

You can look @ humans to get an idea of how it works. There are some people out there who have survived off of supplements and pills alone, avoiding eating all together. Not only do these people look unhappy/uncontent, they have health problems and have to be on meds just to be able to live this lifestyle. It is not an exact comparison, but close. I eat food I prepare, along with taking vitamins to help support a healthy diet. Do you get what I'm saying. I USE pellets and flakes myself because the fish need their veggies, but not as a sole source of nutrition.

 

[snyder810]

what food do fish have to eat out in the wild thats not live food or plants, that they instinctually crave?

why does everyone clump live food into a small group like it's a minute category. if we got down to it it would be very possible to give fish everything they need through a variety of live foods. is this idea practical? no. possible? yes. i'm not pointing the finger at you it was just the closest to quote.
feeding live food does not mean only fish, there are limitless possibilities for live food. no one ever mentions things like daphnia, flies, larvae, tadpoles (just to name a short few). the topic is so broad but rarely covered in much detail because as stated pellets and even buying feeders at a store are easier (and safer in pellets case) than branching out and collecting a true variety.