Massivore Question

Dark Jester

Gambusia
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Jun 17, 2010
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Gun;4448478; said:
Sorry, the "strach" is the 4th, the 3rd is "wheat flour"
Yeah, after seeing this thread I checked the label of the Hikari Algae Wafers in my cabinet, and Ingredient 5 is the mysterious 'starch'. Ingredient 6 is just as mysterious: "dried bakery product". Exactly what is that? Is Hikari adding week-old cupcakes to the Algae wafers? Maybe slipping them some dehydrated cherry pie? Maybe it's a 'proprietary process' for adding corn bread? Other 'Bakery Product' items are listed clearly: Wheat Flour, Wheat Germ Meal, MonoSodium Glutamate, etc. Why an algae wafer intended for vegetarian fish needs Umami (MSG) added to it, I don't know, but that's yet another issue.

Guess I'm gonna start shopping around again. This time I'll be paying more attention to the product labels, rather than flashy packaging.

Gun;4448475; said:
also thanksZ to RD. for starting this thread.
I'll say thanks to RD for bringing this up too. 'Competitor', 'Consumer', or 'Information Advocate', whatever his motives for it I don't really care. I'm glad he enlightened me.
 
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As RDFISHGUY explained, vitamin A and E are fat soluble vitamins. This means excessive levels will be accumulated in the fish and can cause negative health issues over time. For this reason we are adding an exact amount of vitamins, an amount that our lab research has proven the specific fish our diets are developed for requires. Vitamin C tends to be damaged easily by heat and oxidation (Please remember, oxidation can take place in the container a product is shipped in if it is not developed to specifically reduce or eliminate it. This means without a best before date you never really know what the product actually provides your fish as far as the nutrition listed on the label, regardless of what it might state. Additionally, any time you notice a significant change in color or smell or flaking particles from a pellet, this is a sign oxidation is well underway and this food should be avoided) for this reason we only use stabilized vitamin C, hermitically seal each package, use oxygen barrier bags where required and provide a best before date so you can always be sure the product you are feeding provides the nutrient mix your fish requires with useable and viable vitamins and minerals.
 

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RDFISHGUY;4321753; said:
I just wanted to know if you've done any studies regarding the source of starches used in your product. Specifically if any test subjects have been disected to see how much, if any, fat had built up around the organs of the fish involved in such tests. The high inclusion rate of carbs/starches seems a little weird for feeding a carnivorous fish.
Yes, Hikari(R) operated a fully staffed research facility in Japan which conducted ongoing research on all of our diets, and also the ingredients we currently use and those we think might prove to be beneficial if used in the future. We are keenly focused on developing diets that avoid any fat deposit build-up as we know from our research the significant impact this can have on fish and their length of life.

Starch can be a very effective, highly concentrated carbohydrate source and quite effective for carnivorous fish, when processed properly. Of course, as has been mentioned in this post previously, there is some concern that carnivores cannot digest a carb source as easily as herbivorous fish might. This is why the type is important and why we only use a purified form.

Same as you and I, fish require metabolic energy to stay alive. A carbohydrate, when processed properly during production, is a “very clean" energy source for your fish. Once consumed the by-products are only CO2 and H2O, unlike a protein or lipid which causes Nitrate and Phosphate. So for fish kept in an enclosed aquarium, it is a better option to maintain good fish health to use a “clean energy source” instead of one that can negatively impact the water quality which will negatively impact the health of the fish over time.

As many have suggested in this forum, simple logic says that carnivores should not take in high levels of the carbohydrates as this is not "viewed" as part of their natural diet, but if the carbohydrate is converted to a more usable form this may not actually be true. Please remember, we are not keeping these fish in their natural habitat, nor do they have the normal activity level or food sources available to them they would have in the wild. For these reasons, developing a diet that provides them the balanced nutrition they require, in a form they can use at a high efficiency level without causing a negative impact to their environment becomes a primary focus for a responsible maker of their daily diet.

For these reasons, we use a lab developed level of carbohydrates (such as starch) for our carnivore diets, and this is one of the reasons our product quality is always reliable and considered outstanding by top hobbyists who actually have first hand experience using our products over longer time horizons.
 

scriving

Jack Dempsey
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hikari can not stack up to nls plain and simple but it is more readily accepted by my fish so i feed both
 
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We very much appreciate the support of every Hikari user, always!

Hikari has always let our product quality and the results when using them speak for themselves. As a Japanese company modesty is a sign of respect. With the information availability on the internet, anyone can make a statement about any product (fish food or other) with no scientific basis to that comment and anyone reading their post, rating or comments can take the information as fact or opinion. We're a firm believer that the only way for anyone to really verify if one food is actually better than another is to do what Hikari does repeatedly in the lab, conduct a long term feeding trial. At the end of the trial, note the external characteristics of the fish, the weight, body conformation, color and overall health from an external perspective. Then Hikari does all sorts of tests of the tissues and organs, incuding any fat deposit buildup that could be impacting the organ function, to see what the overall impact from the nutrition might be. Many decades of focusing on the fish and what they need in a finely balanced nutrient package has allowed us to become the leader in species specific nutrition worldwide.
 

Miguel

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Very much south..
I always liked Hikari ( my fish do ). What irks me is the smell of Massivore! Awfull smell.
 

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Please remember the sense of smell of the prey is as important as the nutrition it offers your pet!
 
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