My Haitiensis r n a 120g. 9 fish from 2”-4”. Them females r brutal tho....so far I have 3 paired up but no spawns just a lot of territorial disputes. I have a 55g and 90g ready for the first 2 established pairs!
Meanest SA/CA cichlid you currently own
- Thread starter CichlidsNCars
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Since most cichlids are territorial, I consider the anthropomorphic term "mean" ironic.
Is it "mean" for a predator to eat fish? no.
Is it "mean" for a fish that requires a territory of 250 gallons (if put in a 100 gal tank and kills other tank mates) mean"? not really.
It just means the tank isn't perceived by the fish to be adequate. (just because a human thinks the tank is big enough, doesn't make the human right)
I have seen dovii, (which the term "mean" is often applied to) in 500+ gal tanks being quite placid, and often tolerant of other non-edible tank mates.
The most outwardly murderous fish I've kept were Coptodon bythobates.
They spawned in my 125 gal community tank at less than 4".
After the fry became free swimming the parents would hunt down another fish in the tank (often twice their size) and drag the corpse back to their fry to feast on, until gone or too rotten to eat. As adults they are primarily vegetarian.
Did this make them "mean"? Or did it just mean they needed to feed their young?
Is it "mean" for a predator to eat fish? no.
Is it "mean" for a fish that requires a territory of 250 gallons (if put in a 100 gal tank and kills other tank mates) mean"? not really.
It just means the tank isn't perceived by the fish to be adequate. (just because a human thinks the tank is big enough, doesn't make the human right)
I have seen dovii, (which the term "mean" is often applied to) in 500+ gal tanks being quite placid, and often tolerant of other non-edible tank mates.
The most outwardly murderous fish I've kept were Coptodon bythobates.
They spawned in my 125 gal community tank at less than 4".
After the fry became free swimming the parents would hunt down another fish in the tank (often twice their size) and drag the corpse back to their fry to feast on, until gone or too rotten to eat. As adults they are primarily vegetarian.
Did this make them "mean"? Or did it just mean they needed to feed their young?
That's discussing as well as amazing parenting (depending o the way you look at it).
Since most cichlids are territorial, I consider the anthropomorphic term "mean" ironic.
Is it "mean" for a predator to eat fish? no.
Is it "mean" for a fish that requires a territory of 250 gallons (if put in a 100 gal tank and kills other tank mates) mean"? not really.
It just means the tank isn't perceived by the fish to be adequate. (just because a human thinks the tank is big enough, doesn't make the human right)
I have seen dovii, (which the term "mean" is often applied to) in 500+ gal tanks being quite placid, and often tolerant of other non-edible tank mates.
Yeah, I certainly understand what you're saying. I more or less intended on trying to make a more fun discussion about people's experiences with cichlids, being cichlids I guess. You really can't blame them for acting the way that they do, especially since, like you said, they even Dovii can be somewhat amiable in the right conditions. You also have to consider that there really are some Cichlids out there that no matter what the conditions, they still want to kill each other. I think it all REALLY comes down to individuality and the fish themselves many times. I currently own a female RD who has no problem with her tankmate despite being able to potentially kill him at anytime with little to no effort. She just chooses to ignore him. However, I have owned other Devil's before and despite being in a 240 gallon, had just one who didn't get the memo and decided that while I was gone for a weekend at a friend's house, decided to murder all his tankmates without rhyme or reason. The tank certainly wasn't what you would call cramped, he just didn't like having to share.
Is it "mean" for a predator to eat fish? no.
Is it "mean" for a fish that requires a territory of 250 gallons (if put in a 100 gal tank and kills other tank mates) mean"? not really.
It just means the tank isn't perceived by the fish to be adequate. (just because a human thinks the tank is big enough, doesn't make the human right)
I have seen dovii, (which the term "mean" is often applied to) in 500+ gal tanks being quite placid, and often tolerant of other non-edible tank mates.
Yeah, I certainly understand what you're saying. I more or less intended on trying to make a more fun discussion about people's experiences with cichlids, being cichlids I guess. You really can't blame them for acting the way that they do, especially since, like you said, they even Dovii can be somewhat amiable in the right conditions. You also have to consider that there really are some Cichlids out there that no matter what the conditions, they still want to kill each other. I think it all REALLY comes down to individuality and the fish themselves many times. I currently own a female RD who has no problem with her tankmate despite being able to potentially kill him at anytime with little to no effort. She just chooses to ignore him. However, I have owned other Devil's before and despite being in a 240 gallon, had just one who didn't get the memo and decided that while I was gone for a weekend at a friend's house, decided to murder all his tankmates without rhyme or reason. The tank certainly wasn't what you would call cramped, he just didn't like having to share.
I just think that perhaps by talking about how "mean" some of our cichlids are, potentially we could learn something about how to deal or prevent the situations and have some fun talking about it. Personally, I don't really know of a particular species I would call "mean" as a whole, but some cichlids just won't tolerate others no matter the circumstances.
One of the cichlids I have kept is Nandopsis haitiensus, popularly called the "black nasty" because it often doesn't tolerate any cichlid tank mate, in even the largest tanks.
But consider that where they come from, there are no other species of cichlids on the island.
So to me, the idea that they wouldn't be good in a community setting should be obvious.
Even some mainland cichlids should be recognized as such.
Mayaheros beanii was mentioned earlier in the thread, and much like haitiensus, there are no other cichlid species found in the rivers they inhabit.
So this should also be an obvious clue as to how they should be kept. If an aquarist disregards this natural life style, then adds it to a cichlid community and ends up with just one cichlid standing, is it because the beanii is "mean" or has the aquarist just made bad, uninformed choices.
On a more commonly available cichlid front, I have watched normal sized JDs in nature defend a territory of about 250 gallons, but the general consensus is they can be comfortably kept in a 75 gal tank. Watching them in nature, tell a slightly different story
In the video i took in a Cenote in Mexico below, at about the 50 second mark a JD defends its territory from all other cichlids, the territory is minimally about 250 gallos, and it only breaks off its chase at about 4ft. To me this means if you want to keep any other cichlid with the JD, the tank have 4 ft of space just for the JDs alone, so even a 6 ft tank as a community will only give other cichlids 2 ft of living area.
JDs and Catfish of Cenote Cristalino
But consider that where they come from, there are no other species of cichlids on the island.
So to me, the idea that they wouldn't be good in a community setting should be obvious.
Even some mainland cichlids should be recognized as such.
Mayaheros beanii was mentioned earlier in the thread, and much like haitiensus, there are no other cichlid species found in the rivers they inhabit.
So this should also be an obvious clue as to how they should be kept. If an aquarist disregards this natural life style, then adds it to a cichlid community and ends up with just one cichlid standing, is it because the beanii is "mean" or has the aquarist just made bad, uninformed choices.
On a more commonly available cichlid front, I have watched normal sized JDs in nature defend a territory of about 250 gallons, but the general consensus is they can be comfortably kept in a 75 gal tank. Watching them in nature, tell a slightly different story
In the video i took in a Cenote in Mexico below, at about the 50 second mark a JD defends its territory from all other cichlids, the territory is minimally about 250 gallos, and it only breaks off its chase at about 4ft. To me this means if you want to keep any other cichlid with the JD, the tank have 4 ft of space just for the JDs alone, so even a 6 ft tank as a community will only give other cichlids 2 ft of living area.
JDs and Catfish of Cenote Cristalino
The unnatural setting that is a fish tank, unlike the wild, isn't with "unlimited" room per se. This can also promote somewhat unique behavior and interactions that would not occur naturally. I believe I did mention my Beani that I had a few years ago. He wasn't "mean" in the sense of human nature, but he wasn't what I would refer to as "normal" for a Beani either. What I mean by that was that he very unpredictable about how he acted. One day, maybe he would bite my hand when I was cleaning the tank or moving decorations. Next day, I could hand feed him without issues. Day after, maybe he's attacking the barrier between him and the other fish "sharing" the tank with him. Then, if I pulled the barrier out, he would be fine. Like I was saying, I don't really think that cichlids are "mean" or anything, but like people, they are all individuals and can definitely behave as such. There honestly isn't much of an end all be all when it comes to cichlids, tankmates or tank itself. I think when it comes down to it, the best thing to do is to try to give our fish the best possible life, providing them things that they wouldn't naturally get living in the lakes they occur in such as security and a constant and consistent food source. I believe that many people on mfk would probably agree. We may not have the space of the wild lakes, but we try to give our fish as much room and comfort as possible, even though on occasion we may put them in situations that they wouldn't naturally see such as tankmates from other regions or lakes. It is ultimately up to the hobbyist to how they decide to keep their fish, even if they unfortunately don't give them the best possible life. It's just up to the other keepers to try and help them make better educated decisions.
Yes every fish, and every situation is different. That's why I always try to compare my own fish and personal experiences. My male dovii for example is extremely timid and docile. Not the normal expectation. I just look at it as how much tendency they have toward aggression. That midas I had was aggressive 24/7 towards fish, or people. My dovii on the other hand tends to shy away from people if your too close to the tank or make any fast movements. When a fish is relentlessly going after a guy who is 6' 5" and 300 pounds, even from across the room, that's pretty a fearless attitude lol.
