midas/red devil breeding for certain colours, gene help?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
there are 2 shops near me with fish labeled red devils, in one they are very small 1.5/2" and they are fully coloured up bright red and white and the other shops are about 3" and are still dull and bared so maybe you are right about the differences.
 
if i could find a female with black markings that would be great but it is highly unlikely, also as stated i'd really like to creat a quad colour line if possible, white black orange and yellow
 
dunno why i wrote red devil in the title, it was intended to steer people away from debating whether mine were midas or not! but looking back i see it could be taken as if im attempting to cross breed the two, guess that is where you were coming from anchovie lol!?
 
Lacking absolute certainty of provenance, which you, and i, and thousands of others lack, Just, what is the problem with it being a midevil?
Just carry on what you are planning, attempt the thing, and care not whether it is a Midas, a Rd or a Midevil.

Who, but the most stallwart purist would care what you achieve and keep? Don't loose focus with that pointless discussion.

Your fish is beautifull. Sure it is a Midas? No. Does it matter?
 
Modest_Man said:
So in regards to genetic inheritance, the way cichlids undergo a transformation to the colored morph (peeling) is vastly different than simple Mendelian genetics.
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Justarn, what Modest_Man is saying is so true. Genetics is only the beginning where fading color is concerned. Environment plays a huge part of how a Midas/Devil Develops.

Your best bet is to have lots and lots of extra tank space available so you can raise out many babies to adulthood. Otherwise you will never know if you are making any progress in your breeding plan. As for the genetics, you can try to learn as much as possible but even if you don't you can still succeed. Long before Mendel or anyone else started putting the rules of inheritance on paper, the ancient Chinese were breeding some pretty crazy goldfish and koi. They used the simplest methods. Selection. When you produce a few babies that grow up closest to what you want, use those as breeders. Cull rigorously. You are right to get rid of the fish with the fin deformity if your first goal is breeding and not just enjoying an otherwise nice fish. After selection, Patience. It will take many generations, therefore many years to produce the ideal fish. Creating a new strain is a LIFETIME goal. If you think you can whip up a new STABLE color pattern in just a few years, then best you quit now. It takes more than just a few years for one generation to become monster fish!!! START COLLECTING LARGE TANKS NOW. And start a savings plan above and beyond your retirement plan. Fish are like boats. Often wet and always expensive.
 
Miguel said:
Lacking absolute certainty of provenance, which you, and i, and thousands of others lack, Just, what is the problem with it being a midevil?
Just carry on what you are planning, attempt the thing, and care not whether it is a Midas, a Rd or a Midevil.

Who, but the most stallwart purist would care what you achieve and keep? Don't loose focus with that pointless discussion.

Your fish is beautifull. Sure it is a Midas? No. Does it matter?
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lol just started a thread about midevils with a stealth title lol.... love a debate!-) in reality i dont care if it looks midas its midas imo... i wont go on as thats my other thread haha.
 
krustyart said:


Justarn, what Modest_Man is saying is so true. Genetics is only the beginning where fading color is concerned. Environment plays a huge part of how a Midas/Devil Develops.

Your best bet is to have lots and lots of extra tank space available so you can raise out many babies to adulthood. Otherwise you will never know if you are making any progress in your breeding plan. As for the genetics, you can try to learn as much as possible but even if you don't you can still succeed. Long before Mendel or anyone else started putting the rules of inheritance on paper, the ancient Chinese were breeding some pretty crazy goldfish and koi. They used the simplest methods. Selection. When you produce a few babies that grow up closest to what you want, use those as breeders. Cull rigorously. You are right to get rid of the fish with the fin deformity if your first goal is breeding and not just enjoying an otherwise nice fish. After selection, Patience. It will take many generations, therefore many years to produce the ideal fish. Creating a new strain is a LIFETIME goal. If you think you can whip up a new STABLE color pattern in just a few years, then best you quit now. It takes more than just a few years for one generation to become monster fish!!! START COLLECTING LARGE TANKS NOW. And start a savings plan above and beyond your retirement plan. Fish are like boats. Often wet and always expensive.
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thats probably the single best post ive ever read on here.... i think i will tick over and see what happens here lol, i plan on keeping at least a few from this pair to grow out and if i get the new female i'll grow some of theirs out then think about cross breeding them. maybe you are right i'll need loadsa empty water to speed it up, my task is made that much more difficult cause my male didnt peel till he was 8inch!!! i'll see how it goes, and i now understand why its not all about genes, thanks.
 
justarn said:
ive ended him on ebay for now... dont cost anything atm....
just got a quote for 10kg and size of 450x300x300 through a normal courier so not sure if they take live fish, was 56 british pounds alone, gurranteed next day by 12pm... i have a polybox heatpacks would be around 10 pounds to be safe.... was asking 15 pounds starting bid for the fish, hoping for 25 pounds... i reckon it would cost 80-90 quid for a box that size.... its 30 pounds delivery for a small box 250x125x150... he's 9-10 inch long so even the large box would be tight for that amount of time!
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OY OY OY.... all that talking made my head spin lol, confused on your currency, i live in the states lol...
 
livebearerfreak said:
OY OY OY.... all that talking made my head spin lol, confused on your currency, i live in the states lol...
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10 uk pounds is 15.7 usd as i write this lol...
 
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