My 210 FOWLR Turned Reef

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Well... I had a better reply... but I accidentally refreshed the page... so I'm going to be lazy and sum it up haha.

I understand why you preventative treat (and why alot of "pros" do as well) as it really is the safest way to do things, as you said its hard to QT your entire displays worth of fish (even more so with larger systems). I just like to minamize stress, even more so when they are already very stressed from shipping, relocation, acclimation etc, as I've found that when fish get stressed, by being underfed, shipping, poor water, etc they are more likely to get sick, be that infection or parasites, where as when they are healthy, they they rarely get or pass on infections/parasites (as you mentioned). Essentially I QT them untill they are fully "healthy" and fat, medicating if nessisary, then I place them in a large "breeders box" (with more holes for better flow and what not) for a week or more, to help let the display tank fish adjust to the new addition(s), I've found it helps reduce agression occationally.

If I may make a suggestion, possibly do dips instead of full time medicating? To reduce long term stress (even though dips can be stressful depending on the way you capture them). Do you use UV on your QT? I use UV, and a skimmer on my QTs, which is funny, as I don't even use a skimmer on my displays... LOL but I find that UV/heavy skimming replaces the need for heavy medication, as it kills or removes most if not all waterborn parasites/infections. I also use bare bottom QTs so I can clean them more effectively.
 
Kevin8888 said:
Well... I had a better reply... but I accidentally refreshed the page... so I'm going to be lazy and sum it up haha.

I understand why you preventative treat (and why alot of "pros" do as well) as it really is the safest way to do things, as you said its hard to QT your entire displays worth of fish (even more so with larger systems). I just like to minamize stress, even more so when they are already very stressed from shipping, relocation, acclimation etc, as I've found that when fish get stressed, by being underfed, shipping, poor water, etc they are more likely to get sick, be that infection or parasites, where as when they are healthy, they they rarely get or pass on infections/parasites (as you mentioned). Essentially I QT them untill they are fully "healthy" and fat, medicating if nessisary, then I place them in a large "breeders box" (with more holes for better flow and what not) for a week or more, to help let the display tank fish adjust to the new addition(s), I've found it helps reduce agression occationally.

If I may make a suggestion, possibly do dips instead of full time medicating? To reduce long term stress (even though dips can be stressful depending on the way you capture them). Do you use UV on your QT? I use UV, and a skimmer on my QTs, which is funny, as I don't even use a skimmer on my displays... LOL but I find that UV/heavy skimming replaces the need for heavy medication, as it kills or removes most if not all waterborn parasites/infections. I also use bare bottom QTs so I can clean them more effectively.
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I agree with much of what you are saying and think people can be successful with either game plan. However, I do think dipping is highly stressful to the fish. Removing it from the tank and placing in a bucket for a short period of time while blasting it with a higher more dangerous dose of medicine is scary to me. I had tried it previously and did not have good results as the fish got too stressed. Also, if they are sick, the parasite is then still in the tank you place them back into and also deep in their flesh where a dip isn't long enough for all the parasites to come out and die.

Here is my thinking on what I will change.
1. I am going to go slower on the QT process. Give the fish a couple weeks(more if needed) to get adjusted and fatten up before starting any treatment. I have never had a fish respond poorly to prazipro, but copper I believe is much more stressful. I will leave more time between treating the prazipro and the copper also.
2. I am going to get a HOB skimmer. I will probably buy a used aqua c remora or equivalent. Not going to get a UV sterilizer for a couple reasons. In your case, it would work very well, but I am going to be treating anyway so it would somewhat defeat the purpose and couldn't be on during treatments. It also would clutter up an area around my QT that is low on space. Lastly, upkeep on UV's is expensive. Buying bulbs every 6 months is a killer.
 
Ya its true the bulbs are rather expencive, but since I only add new fish occationally the bulb costs aren't to bad, since I don't run my QT when I'm not adding fish, or if I do, the UV would be off. Your probably right about dipping... was just a thought, the suggestion was because I've read things about copper being hard on fish when exposed long term (which to be fair can be said about any medication). Though, possibly if you did dipping a different way, like scooping the fish up with the QT water in the bucket for the dip then adding the meds to the scooping bucket? Though that doesnt elimintate any parasites in the water collumn like you mentioned. That said, if you QT the fish untill they are adjusted/healthier before doing your treatments it's likely to be a less risky situation to just medicate the QT.
 
Kevin8888 said:
Ya its true the bulbs are rather expencive, but since I only add new fish occationally the bulb costs aren't to bad, since I don't run my QT when I'm not adding fish, or if I do, the UV would be off. Your probably right about dipping... was just a thought, the suggestion was because I've read things about copper being hard on fish when exposed long term (which to be fair can be said about any medication). Though, possibly if you did dipping a different way, like scooping the fish up with the QT water in the bucket for the dip then adding the meds to the scooping bucket? Though that doesnt elimintate any parasites in the water collumn like you mentioned. That said, if you QT the fish untill they are adjusted/healthier before doing your treatments it's likely to be a less risky situation to just medicate the QT.
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Good points.

I guess I feel pulling them out of the tank in any way to be pretty stressful. That is actually not the big concern I have with doing that way, the fact that you have to use Formaldehyde and Malachite Green is the stressful and most dangerous part IMO. It is like a bath of death and I have seen a number of fish really struggle to get through it with some not making it.

When you need to treat in QT what route do you go, do you dip?

I think Hyposalinity is actually the best way to go in QT, but then more equipment is needed, like an ATO, because fluctuations in salinity will prevent it from working.

Also, do you have a thread on any/all of your tanks? I would be very interested in seeing your setup(s).
 
I would completly scrap the prazi...its just one more thing for a fish to go through.

Acclimation into QT conditions should be gradual - however the entire process should be as short as possible.

Fewer changes to water chemistry the better - and the fewer medications used the better.

Stinks about the chev...obviously not an easy fish to have.
 
nonstophoops said:
Good points.

I guess I feel pulling them out of the tank in any way to be pretty stressful. That is actually not the big concern I have with doing that way, the fact that you have to use Formaldehyde and Malachite Green is the stressful and most dangerous part IMO. It is like a bath of death and I have seen a number of fish really struggle to get through it with some not making it.

When you need to treat in QT what route do you go, do you dip?

I think Hyposalinity is actually the best way to go in QT, but then more equipment is needed, like an ATO, because fluctuations in salinity will prevent it from working.

Also, do you have a thread on any/all of your tanks? I would be very interested in seeing your setup(s).
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Ya, Formaldehyde and Malachite green can be pretty nasty chemicals, I try to avoid using them unless I absolutly have to. As for how I medicate, it depends on what it is, sometimes its dip, and sometimes I treat the QT directly. I use Hypo for Ich, as its the least agressive way to treat it, though it takes about two weeks (closer to 9 days... but better safe then sorry). Some parasites you have to use the nasty chemicals for though.... like some amphipod ones aren't affected by the hypo, etc.

As for my set ups, I haven't had one in almost 4 years due to school, moving back and forth makes it hard to impossible to keep one up. In the next few years once I finish school I intend to set up something between a 200 and a 500gal, then once im settled in/have the money I'm going to start the 1000gal I've been planing/designing for like 5 years haha.
 
Kevin8888 said:
Ya, Formaldehyde and Malachite green can be pretty nasty chemicals, I try to avoid using them unless I absolutly have to. As for how I medicate, it depends on what it is, sometimes its dip, and sometimes I treat the QT directly. I use Hypo for Ich, as its the least agressive way to treat it, though it takes about two weeks (closer to 9 days... but better safe then sorry). Some parasites you have to use the nasty chemicals for though.... like some amphipod ones aren't affected by the hypo, etc.

As for my set ups, I haven't had one in almost 4 years due to school, moving back and forth makes it hard to impossible to keep one up. In the next few years once I finish school I intend to set up something between a 200 and a 500gal, then once im settled in/have the money I'm going to start the 1000gal I've been planing/designing for like 5 years haha.
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Gotcha.

I ordered some stuff on Black Friday that should be coming this week. I am pretty excited to get it all. I took advantage of deals from Amazon, Premium Aquatics, Avast Marine, a guy on RC, and Fleshy.

1. Got replacement bulbs for my halides since they will be needed in about 2 months. 3 Phoenix 250w 14k's, same as before.

2. Small Phosban Reactor

3. Assorted parts from Avast for a Semi-DIY ozone reactor I'm making. More details below.

4. Mag 5 pump

5. Avast ATO. It was on sale and the new one they have has a back up valve and plugs directly into my Apex. Going to sell the old one or maybe run it to my 90 gallon if I can.

6. Luft Air Pump

7. Large Avast media reactor from Fleshy

8. FIFA 12 for PS3

The mag 5 is going to power the ozone reactor which will have an Avast chamber(from one of their media reactors) and the small Phosban reactor. The Avast chamber will be the ozone reaction chamber and have HDPE ribbon inside to increase contact time. A venturi will be attached to the intake line. This is where the ozone will be put into the water. The water will run through the ozone chamber and into the Phosban reactor where a few cups of carbon will be waiting to nuetralize the excess ozone.

The Luft pump will power the ozonizer. I built a very large DIY air dryer for it after buying a bunch of desiccant from a company that makes it(5 times more expensive from an aquarium type store). The old air pump couldn't get any air through the dryer will all the pressure.

I am basically copying the ozone reactor from Avast, but making the exact same thing for less than half the price(which I don't understand because I bought almost all the components from them.)

The FIFA will then go into the PS3 and I will win the Premiership with Liverpool.
 
Well Fleshy, your frag just got smaller again. I told the guy I would take the colony as soon as I got back in town. He said no problem, we could work out a day this week and to contact him when I got back. I had already purchased some frags and misc. other stuff from him and made a deposit on a dry goods item when the livestock was gone. Evidently he decided to sell it anyway this weekend.
 
I now have all the pieces to get my Semi DIY ozone reactor up and running. Just have to adjust a few fitting so they don't leak and I can let it rip. I haven't been able to run my ozone for the past few weeks since I changed skimmers. With the new skimmer breaking in too, I am sure my system could use the ozone getting back online.

I've up my halides duration some lately also. I feel that not having nice reflectors means I have to run my lights longer to get my corals the right light. My tank is pretty deep too and not many of my corals are right near the top either.

The thing I have been thinking about most lately is which way to go with supplementing my tank. Currently, I am dosing 2 part once a day. It comes out to about 100ml of each part per day. The big problem is when I leave for a weekend or more(like thanksgiving), I can't maintain my parameters. I had to "overdose" before I left and am "overdosing" since being back to get parameters back in line. I really don't like this and need to make a move to automate my system.

As I have mentioned before, I have a calcium reactor setup that I haven't used yet. I was looking at what I all have and realized it is quite the setup. Getting all the equipment new would cost almost $1,100! I got an even better deal than I thought when I first bought it used.

I have:
-Precision Marine RFCa 4 Calcium Reactor with Eheim Pump
-Regulator with Solenoid
-5 lb. CO2 tank
-Precision Marine Effluent Chamber
-Milwaukee PH monitor with probe
-Another pump, Maxijet 1200
-15 Liter Aqua Medic Hydrocarbonate reactor media, almost full.
-All required plumbing

Despite all this I am still questioning whether I want to use a calcium reactor or go with a full fledge dosing system with 2 or 3 dosing pumps. The pumps just seem safer and easier than a calcium reactor. I know long term dosing would be a bit more expensive in a large setup like mine, particularly if I add a small frag tank on as I plan to do. I guess the chance of a media meltdown from ph probe problems or valve problems on the co2 tank are what is scaring me. How low my ph would get with the reactor is a concern also. I don't want to have to dose Kalk too. Dosing seems so much easier because it is an automated way of doing the same thing I am doing. I could easily sell the Calcium reactor setup if I decided to go with dosing and probably have money left over after buying dosing pumps.

Any of you have experience with both and what have you chosen?

Basically, which route should I go?

Any info on why or why not to go either direction would be great. Let me hear your thoughts.
 
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