My new baby flowerhorn
- Thread starter jwitty
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A couple of things to note, I have raised several flowerhorn, as well as numerous other fish, over many years. There is no need to presoak pellets, other than when initially training a fish that has never seen or eaten a pellet. As in wild caught specimens, or perhaps flowerhorn imported from Asia, that have been raised on an exclusive diet of blood worms. I have dealt with both scenarios numerous times. In those cases I presoak pellets in the juice of frozen blood worms, feed lightly once in the AM, until the fish get hungry enough to come around, then I slowly wean them off of the pre-soak bit by bit, until it is %100 dry. This process has never taken more than 10 days to convert fish.
Fish have very powerful gastric acids and enzymes, which will turn "hard" pellets in to soft mush, in very short order. In fact, I have caught wild fish with steel hooks inside them, where the steel had mostly dissolved over the season. No need to add moisture prior to feeding, and as previously stated doing so does increase the amount of water soluble nutrients that will leach out into the water.
As far as Bug Bites, I initially trialled this food shortly after it came out, please read the following for this foods pros & cons. I would personally not rate this as a "good" fish food. Not even close.
www.monsterfishkeepers.com
The OP was overfeeding his fish, hence the big belly. Probably the quickest way to a case of Spironucleus vortens, aka Hexamita. FH, like most designer fish have weak gastrointestinal systems, slow the roll young blood, you and/or your dad are feeding too much.
As far as terrestrial based raw ingredients (plant matter), in most fish foods these would be what old timers would consider "fillers". Brands such as Tetra & Wardeley are notorious for fluffing their foods up. I'm also old enough to remember when commercial fish foods such as the one below was considered a quality diet.
I also worked in the fish food trade for close to a decade, and I know a thing or two about fish, and fish food.
Good luck
Fish have very powerful gastric acids and enzymes, which will turn "hard" pellets in to soft mush, in very short order. In fact, I have caught wild fish with steel hooks inside them, where the steel had mostly dissolved over the season. No need to add moisture prior to feeding, and as previously stated doing so does increase the amount of water soluble nutrients that will leach out into the water.
As far as Bug Bites, I initially trialled this food shortly after it came out, please read the following for this foods pros & cons. I would personally not rate this as a "good" fish food. Not even close.
Bug Bites
Was wondering what everybody thought about these bug bites. Picked up a bag and feed them to some fish this weekend. My trimac loves them I'm mean he gobbles them up. my question is do u think u could feed them this everyday and have them by healthy. will eat some pellets but nothing like these...
www.monsterfishkeepers.com
The OP was overfeeding his fish, hence the big belly. Probably the quickest way to a case of Spironucleus vortens, aka Hexamita. FH, like most designer fish have weak gastrointestinal systems, slow the roll young blood, you and/or your dad are feeding too much.
As far as terrestrial based raw ingredients (plant matter), in most fish foods these would be what old timers would consider "fillers". Brands such as Tetra & Wardeley are notorious for fluffing their foods up. I'm also old enough to remember when commercial fish foods such as the one below was considered a quality diet.
I also worked in the fish food trade for close to a decade, and I know a thing or two about fish, and fish food.
Good luck
Well saidIf you're fish are fine feeding terrestrial vegetation than have at it bro -- and same if you want to feed Tetra anything, which most people in the know think is crap fish food overall. But you've been doing this for years as you say, so I'm sure you know better lol, each to his own.
And yes lots of commercial fish foods, even Hikari use terrestrial based plants, that's because basically they're cheapos compared to the companies that don't (like NLS). And there's certainly a difference in using such ingredients in a pellet vs. cut up and tossed into your tank to get torn up (would love to see how that affects your water quality), but each to his own.
Also I'm not saying feeding fresh land-based plants is going to kill your fish (unless maybe if you don't remove 100% of the pesticides they put on most veggies nowadays) -- what I'm saying if you'd get past your sensitivity and read more carefully, is that it's absolutely not necessary with a Flowerhorn (and I would argue the same for frozen foods and krill), but each to his own.
I don't have a problem with fish food lying around the bottom of my tank, I only feed in measured amounts and my fish eat the food soon as it hits water or lands on the bottom. Then I give some more. So I don't have to worry about vitamins and such leaching out beforehand. But if you don't believe the premise of what I'm saying, then up to you, each to his own.
Lol if you want to put it that way, when talking about Flowerhorn -- which you've kept how many?? -- you're exactly right, I am suggesting your fish keeping advice is inferior, but I certainly wasn't aiming to make you feel inferior, sorry about that. If you want to be so sensitive you cannot accept anyone offering a different and very arguably better way of fish keeping -- while you come on here acting like a Flowerhorn expert -- that's up to you, and sorry I don't really care if you resent the implication. There are some who powder-puff their responses on MFK, and there are some who don't -- you will run into both types here, just like in real life.
And it's called learning bro, and all of us with open minds benefit from it. Is this site now being overrun by Snowflakes?!? If so that's very sad because for sure it will stifle the exchange of information and learning process many of us come here for -- even if we may run into different, even opposing views.
If you really want to learn more about proper diets for fish Sir, I humbly suggest you peruse some of
>>As past worker in the fish food industry, fish brand did you work for and do you recommend it?A couple of things to note, I have raised several flowerhorn, as well as numerous other fish, over many years. There is no need to presoak pellets, other than when initially training a fish that has never seen or eaten a pellet. As in wild caught specimens, or perhaps flowerhorn imported from Asia, that have been raised on an exclusive diet of blood worms. I have dealt with both scenarios numerous times. In those cases I presoak pellets in the juice of frozen blood worms, feed lightly once in the AM, until the fish get hungry enough to come around, then I slowly wean them off of the pre-soak bit by bit, until it is %100 dry. This process has never taken more than 10 days to convert fish.
Fish have very powerful gastric acids and enzymes, which will turn "hard" pellets in to soft mush, in very short order. In fact, I have caught wild fish with steel hooks inside them, where the steel had mostly dissolved over the season. No need to add moisture prior to feeding, and as previously stated doing so does increase the amount of water soluble nutrients that will leach out into the water.
As far as Bug Bites, I initially trialled this food shortly after it came out, please read the following for this foods pros & cons. I would personally not rate this as a "good" fish food. Not even close.
Bug Bites
Was wondering what everybody thought about these bug bites. Picked up a bag and feed them to some fish this weekend. My trimac loves them I'm mean he gobbles them up. my question is do u think u could feed them this everyday and have them by healthy. will eat some pellets but nothing like these...
The OP was overfeeding his fish, hence the big belly. Probably the quickest way to a case of Spironucleus vortens, aka Hexamita. FH, like most designer fish have weak gastrointestinal systems, slow the roll young blood, you and/or your dad are feeding too much.
As far as terrestrial based raw ingredients (plant matter), in most fish foods these would be what old timers would consider "fillers". Brands such as Tetra & Wardeley are notorious for fluffing their foods up. I'm also old enough to remember when commercial fish foods such as the one below was considered a quality diet.
View attachment 1368782
I also worked in the fish food trade for close to a decade, and I know a thing or two about fish, and fish food.
Good luck
>>As an insider in the industry and a fish keeper what brands do you highly recommend for cichlid hybrids, straight cichlids, polys, cats, mixed tropical?The array has broadened over the years. I wasn't aware that Tetra had such a bad wrap.
I justed started feeding Bug Bites. I alternate with Hikari Cichlid Gold.
I use Tetra Flakes and Tetra Pleco Wafers also.
If these are not acceptable, Please what are acceptable flake substitutes and plant based substitute. I read cooked brocolli is acceptable and all my species enjoy it as a rare treat.
My fish also enjoy water wisteria from my aquarium gardens is that acceptable?
Thank you.
Hahaha, Fish Wafers made with Tapioca flour sound delicious. I have tapioca flour in my cupboard. (With a human designated label.) Does it actually have nutrional value for fish? I don't ever remember reading it as an ingredient or filler in the brands I use.
I have been retired for several yrs from the trade, but I was once a distributor (in Canada) for New Life Spectrum.
I still use their products. Not that there aren't other quality brands and formulas, but Tetra & Wardley have pretty much stayed the same with regards to their overall ingredients. The issue with terrestrial based plant matter is the inclusion of anti-nutritional matter. This can be largely reduced by processing temps, but still, IMO it is far more ideal to feed finfish, aquatic based plant matter. As an example, this is an NLS "veggie" based formula.
I actually feed that formula a few times a week to all of my fish, no matter their diet category that an ichthyologist has placed them in. I think that it's fine to feed different foods, one just needs to be a little more careful with designer fish such as flowerhorn. Watch the crude protein levels, and crude fat, and while plant matter is good for a FH, I would limit the terrestrial based plant matter, such as soybeans, corn, and even peas - especially if in a raw state.
Feeding raw peas is old school, just like me, but over the years science has proven that terrestrial based plant matter is generally only used in fish feed formulas due to cost saving and convenience. There is no argument, probably hundreds of papers on this subject for anyone willing to do the research.
I'm not saying that a few peas here and there are going to be harmful to anyone's fish, only that today there are far better alternatives.
Peas contain phytic acid, tannins, and trypsin inhibitors, which are not something that fish benefit from and which can potentially cause negative health issues when fed in excess.
IMO aquatic based plant matter always trumps terrestrial based plant matter. I posted about this in the past discussion linked to below.
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/fruit-veg-for-fish.690291/
I still use their products. Not that there aren't other quality brands and formulas, but Tetra & Wardley have pretty much stayed the same with regards to their overall ingredients. The issue with terrestrial based plant matter is the inclusion of anti-nutritional matter. This can be largely reduced by processing temps, but still, IMO it is far more ideal to feed finfish, aquatic based plant matter. As an example, this is an NLS "veggie" based formula.
I actually feed that formula a few times a week to all of my fish, no matter their diet category that an ichthyologist has placed them in. I think that it's fine to feed different foods, one just needs to be a little more careful with designer fish such as flowerhorn. Watch the crude protein levels, and crude fat, and while plant matter is good for a FH, I would limit the terrestrial based plant matter, such as soybeans, corn, and even peas - especially if in a raw state.
Feeding raw peas is old school, just like me, but over the years science has proven that terrestrial based plant matter is generally only used in fish feed formulas due to cost saving and convenience. There is no argument, probably hundreds of papers on this subject for anyone willing to do the research.
I'm not saying that a few peas here and there are going to be harmful to anyone's fish, only that today there are far better alternatives.
Peas contain phytic acid, tannins, and trypsin inhibitors, which are not something that fish benefit from and which can potentially cause negative health issues when fed in excess.
IMO aquatic based plant matter always trumps terrestrial based plant matter. I posted about this in the past discussion linked to below.
https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/fruit-veg-for-fish.690291/
Not sure why all this started...my flowerhorn has been doing fine and his belly is back down. He’s actually been growing good. His hump is starting to puff out more now. As well as he’s gotten 1/4 to 1/2 inch longer since I got him. He’s been swimming around very happily and water parameters have been steady.
islandguy11
I appreciate your concern and advise but you have a plethora of assumptions of what I did and didn’t do, which I have said nothing about on this thread or site as a whole. I haven’t needed to because he has been doing great. I don’t have just one food. I have bug bites, but also bio gold and a handful of other foods including NLS. I’m not really appreciating the way you’re treating my friend F Fishflyer . He’s giving advise that he’s had experience with for decades. And it obviously works for him from the pictures he sent me of his tanks. His fish are super healthy and great looking. I do appreciate you apologizing but it seemed that it was fake since you kept going at it. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen you do this to someone on the forum. Frankly it’s not needed or wanted, especially on my threads.
HybridFinatic
your comments are not needed or wanted
RD.
i appreciate the work you do in testing and going over different foods, and the advise that you have given on here and all over this site. It helps many it is a great source of information.
islandguy11
I appreciate your concern and advise but you have a plethora of assumptions of what I did and didn’t do, which I have said nothing about on this thread or site as a whole. I haven’t needed to because he has been doing great. I don’t have just one food. I have bug bites, but also bio gold and a handful of other foods including NLS. I’m not really appreciating the way you’re treating my friend F Fishflyer . He’s giving advise that he’s had experience with for decades. And it obviously works for him from the pictures he sent me of his tanks. His fish are super healthy and great looking. I do appreciate you apologizing but it seemed that it was fake since you kept going at it. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen you do this to someone on the forum. Frankly it’s not needed or wanted, especially on my threads.
HybridFinatic
your comments are not needed or wanted
RD.
i appreciate the work you do in testing and going over different foods, and the advise that you have given on here and all over this site. It helps many it is a great source of information.
To be clear this site has long been overrun by “snowflakes” long Before I came here. One of the biggest reasons I don’t come here as much anymore.
Only thing I have ever recommended to you in this thread or ever is to fast your fish for a day or two because of your excess in feeding and you replied to me in either this thread or another thread that you don’t even feed him that much and that is fasting your fish is harmful. Yeah ok buddy. I’m not sure why you have something against me. A lot of what know is and “preach” is from RD. And as RD said the overfeeding is the quickest way to give your flowerhorn hexamita. Fasting is benefical for your fish.
Frankly I just don’t care what you say at all or your opinion. You don’t need to “preach” anything because I can read what rd has said on this site at any time I want.
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