Mystery - colorful female aulonocara?

[Adam GR]

1 this Eureka is not fully colored up. There is almost none blue/purple. It looks like 5months ago, when it fade out after hormones (it was bright as sun when ge it home - lots of purple) - what Im trying to say is - it doesnt look like this fish is gaining any more color
2 did you ever actually see the moment when holding female decide to eat the eggs?? You sure nothing is relesed from those eggs??
3 only in this thread there is a guy saying that he also have a male looking OB which is a female (i am awere that OB females can have a bit o color), but without looking at the fish you know that this guy cant sex his fish..View attachment 1394578View attachment 1394579View attachment 1394580
Here is a few pic from a week agoView attachment 1394578View attachment 1394579View attachment 1394580

Honestly I'm having a difficult time following your timeframe, and the events that followed.

1. Aulonocara that are fully coclored, can color down to a sub dominant, female coloration, when under stress. This is very common within this genus. I'm not sure if this is what you are seeing, or not. It's what I'm seeing.

2. I have never seen what you describe, and I have bred my fair share of African cichlids over many years.

3. The most accurate way to sex a fish, any fish, is to vent it.

Comparing OB peacocks, a mbuna crossed hybrid morph, to a pure Aulonocara jacobfreibergi makes zero sense. I have owned both. The former was created with a mbuna cross, the most likely choice was from a monomorphic OB species of mbuna, where the females would also have color. Some, a lot more than others. Then add in many years of line breeding for even more color, as well as different mbuna used in the crossing (which is exactly why OB's can look and act so differently) and there's no comparing that, to identifying a dull brownish, pure female Aulonocara.

Besides all of that, as a female, the fins look completely wrong. Too elongated and pointed to be female.

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Ok I think I'll wait few weeks and we will see if he/she will color up in a tank with smaller fishes. If not I'll vent it and move it to a big tank. If the eggs appear in kouth again I will documented correctly.
Thanks for help
Just as a side note: do you know that on this pic which you provided is a young male, not a female...
Here is the origin of that pic:

Big Sky Cichlids -Juvenile Aulonocara: male or female?

 

[ECW]

Well, sorry I am not a native english speaker and maybe word "smoke" wasnt too accurate and looks like it causeing laugh/confusion... will "smear in water" be any better??

I guess? But I like smoke better. Like a poof of white dust or mist. Freaky! Then your fish becomes ravenous and eats like no tomorrow. That’s some crazy shizz. Brand new to me? But glad your fish started eating again! All’s well that ends well. Lol.

 

[RD.]

Just as a side note: do you know that on this pic which you provided is a young male, not a female...
Here is the origin of that pic:

Ha, touché! Good catch indeed, but doesn't account for the male fins on your "female" fish, yes?

 

[Adam GR]

Ha, touché! Good catch indeed, but doesn't account for the male fins on your "female" fish, yes?

Well yes, it doesn't?
But there is a but?
Should female protomelas also have a rounded anal fin?

 

[Adam GR]

Ha, touché! Good catch indeed, but doesn't account for the male fins on your "female" fish, yes?

Here is confirmed female (I had this fish - give it to friend). It come from the same local shop what eureka. Maybe thay are selling here some mutants??

 

[RD.]

I get it, within domestically bred populations breeders hand pick females that are grouped with males that they have also hand picked. All selectively chosen by the breeder, for what each breeder defines as "quality" traits. Within that selectively bred population there can always be specimens that are more colorful, or have longer fins, more yellow than blue, etc. Whatever traits the breeder has selectively chosen for over the years. This is a given.

Now compare the fins of a male protomelas that I owned years ago. I doubt that many would have difficulty in determining the sex, even if for whatever reason it was colored down and looking drab. That was my point.











I'm not going to keep going round & round over this. If you want to believe that your Eureka is a female, I'm ok with that. Good luck.

 

[Adam GR]

I get it, within domestically bred populations breeders hand pick females that are grouped with males that they have also hand picked. All selectively chosen by the breeder, for what each breeder defines as "quality" traits. Within that selectively bred population there can always be specimens that are more colorful, or have longer fins, more yellow than blue, etc. Whatever traits the breeder has selectively chosen for over the years. This is a given.

Now compare the fins of a male protomelas that I owned years ago. I doubt that many would have difficulty in determining the sex, even if for whatever reason it was colored down and looking drab. That was my point.


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I'm not going to keep going round & round over this. If you want to believe that your Eureka is a female, I'm ok with that. Good luck.

I honestly like to belive that my eureka is male but no one really explain to me why male fish after going through breeding process with another male would stop eating for few days (just to add again - jaw of this fish reminds me my other holding females).
And sorry i dont know what this photo of your fantastic red empress is proving? I think anal fin on my Eureka is much closer loooking to anal fin of my red empress female then your male.
Dont get me wrong - im far from arguing about it but I just think something is not right here.
Now I have that Eureka in a tank with juvi yellow labs and juvi peacocks (1male and 2 females - all much smaller then eureka) and it looks like my little hybrid male is dominating this tank. Eureka doesn't act like another male. When I had this eureka in a big all male tank - he/she most of time hide (15 fish in tank - eureka was in top 6) but no one really was bulling it.
Lika I said , I doesn't want to argue...
I never did it but I will vent this fish.

 

[Adam GR]

Hi there

I get it, within domestically bred populations breeders hand pick females that are grouped with males that they have also hand picked. All selectively chosen by the breeder, for what each breeder defines as "quality" traits. Within that selectively bred population there can always be specimens that are more colorful, or have longer fins, more yellow than blue, etc. Whatever traits the breeder has selectively chosen for over the years. This is a given.

Now compare the fins of a male protomelas that I owned years ago. I doubt that many would have difficulty in determining the sex, even if for whatever reason it was colored down and looking drab. That was my point.


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I'm not going to keep going round & round over this. If you want to believe that your Eureka is a female, I'm ok with that. Good luck.

Hi there
I vent this Eureka and I have pics, can you please have a look?

 

[RD.]

Looks like a male vent to me.

I enlarged the image, but that just made things pixilated and with the light reflection made it more difficult for my tired old eyes, than just viewing the original photo. I pulled the following vid off of youtube, that might help you as well.

 

[deeda]

Great video RD!!

I have also posted this link Male or Female? for others looking to determine gender.