Native algae eater???

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Leo, I am going to have to disagree with some of the information you are receiving. I agree with some of it, but let's clarify some things. You mentioned that everything you are reading about sunfish (as a whole) can be fine in a 55. This is true, but as others mentioned, this depends on species, and doesn't talk about stocking levels (how many of that species can live in a 55). Yes sunfish are aggressive, particularly when they reach sexual maturity. There are two schools of thought when it comes to stocking sunfish, and I've used them all. Let's use a 55 gallon for example.

1) You could stock 1-2 medium-sized sunfish and provide plenty of vertical structure. This means you'd have plenty of room for fish to establish territory and break up line-of-sight (to prevent aggression).
2) You could stock 5-8 medium-sized sunfish. This crowds them to the point where no territory can be established, and no single (small, weak, or less aggressive) fish gets harassed. Just make sure you have sufficient filtration, and keep up with vacuuming the waste out because you will need to feed a lot the keep the fish full.

There is also a happy-medium that I really like and have done before with great success. Do 3-4 sunfish along with a small shoal of large-bodied, fast minnows (think Luxilus, large Cyprinella, or Nocomis or Semotilus chubs). The minnows are too large or fast for the sunfish to eat, and also provide a visual distraction that keeps sunfish occupied so they won't be harassing others all the time.

I've found that warmouth are the most passive of the Lepomis sunfish, and you won't have to worry about aggression from them. Most other sunfish can be vicious and harass others until they die. I can't speak for crappie, though. Just to let you know, I've used all three methods described above. My last sunfish setup was a 46 gallon bowfront with 5 western dollar sunfish and 3 warmouths (see my avatar). The setup lasted 3 years without a single hiccup. After three years, I moved the warmouth out because they were too big, but by then the dollars had reached there max size. Aggression immediately broke out, so I added two bluehead chubs. Once I did that, the tank lasted another year until I had to move cities.
 
I just realized this is not a sunfish stocking thread. I am off subject and my posts can be removed if the moderators see fit.
 
WahooWillie, I respect you on most times but that is where I completely disagree on some information you have. I've found that warmouth to be hyper aggressive, much similar to redbreast and green sunfish.

I've had sunfish killed each other despite of have dilters in the tank. And I've had sunfish killed other sunfish despite of being overstocked and no structures for them to claim the territory.
I've had some larger warmouth that we caught in the trapnets has throw up half digested small sunfish.

Now who's going to say which of us are right or not.
 
I think WahooWillie is right. And also Every individual in a species is different. I have read that bluegills are aggressive, but I have never seen mine be aggressive toward any other fish. I do not know if this is because of their size, but they seem nice. I have had other fish before like a jaguar cichlid, a green terror, a jewel cichlid and other fish in an aquarium i had. After the first day, The jaguar killed my green terror easily. Also the green terror was a male, yet he would not fight back. And once I found out the cichlid I got was a Jaguar cichlid. I got rid of it. But then my jewwl cichlid became the "New terror" of my tank. So I had to get rid of him because he would not let any new fish live at all. I was kind of surprised that the small 3-4 inch jewel cichlid who seemed so nice and peaceful became such a devil. I think It was scared of the Jaguar cichlid, but the jaguar cichlid never went after the jewel cichlid.
 
Now who's going to say which of us are right or not.

Haha - right. Like Leo mentioned, each individual fish will be different. Not to mention your experiences and my experiences were totally different, but could simply be because I had a different fish, different community, different feeding regimes, different tank, etc. That's the beauty of our hobby - much about what we know has been from trial and error. That's when a forum comes into play, where knowledgeable folks can share their different experiences, and it will be up to each person as to how they want to proceed. Good stuff.
 
Jaguar and Jewel Cichlids are two of the most aggressive Cichlids you can own....but even with them in a big enough tank with enough food, structure and dithers its possible. Wahoo Willie I feel is correct, it depends on what type of sunfish, Dithers, Structure, temps, tank size and if their fed well enough or not; and then of course some individual fish just have aggressive personalities. I kept some Green Sunfish that I caught at 3 inches in a 38g bowfront with dithers.....they were fine until one spring when one got about 5 inches long, then it became wwe in my tank. I had added structure and dithers (who were killed even it they didn't eat them), the tank was just too small for such an aggressive species. Green sunfish, Western Dollars and Redbreasted Sunfish are notoriously aggressive, where Bluegill, Pumpkinseeds, Spotted, and Longear are usually in the Medium level of aggression; the least aggressive IMHO are the Orangespotted, Bantam, Warmouth and Redear sunfish.....but this is not to say that there isn't a Muhammed Ali Redear that's super agro out there, its just not what I believe you would usually find. There is a difference oftentimes inbetween where you find the fish, sometimes sunfish from little creeks are superagro where the ones from lakes are more peacefull, this is true of regions also ....with Longear the Missouri Longear is very aggressive, but the Northern Longears I hear are less aggressive (Ive never owned a northern Longear so this is based completely on my readings). Larger fish will do better in Larger tanks (if you don't want to have to overstock and clean the tank several times a week from the large amount of food and waste due to overstocking), minimum tank size is not always the best tank size ......Minimum for Longear may be a 55g but they would be ore comfortable in a 75-125g, whereas a Bluegill minimum may be a 75g but it would thrive in a 90-150g tank. I have owned several books but "American Aquarium Fishes, by Robert J. Goldstein" is the best I have ever owned or read on the keeping and car of native fish. Good luck and I hope this helps.
 
Haha - right. Like Leo mentioned, each individual fish will be different. Not to mention your experiences and my experiences were totally different, but could simply be because I had a different fish, different community, different feeding regimes, different tank, etc. That's the beauty of our hobby - much about what we know has been from trial and error. That's when a forum comes into play, where knowledgeable folks can share their different experiences, and it will be up to each person as to how they want to proceed. Good stuff.

+1
 
... I'm trying to convince my mom to allow me to get my friends 120 gallon for all of the fish. He wants to get rid of it. I KNOW MY FISH NEED A BIGGER TANK, THAT'S WHY IM TRYING TO GET IT. Also my guess about the size of the warmouth and crappie was a visual guess, not an actual measurement. They are probably 3-3.5 inches. And if they are aggressive, why do they sleep together and when they get scared they are together. I am going to make sure they are not fighting ok. I will probably get the tank in December or November if stuff goes the way it is now... I can put them is the 55 gallon now if you think they will be alright with 4-5 inch bluegills, long ear, and a 1ft 1in tire track eel... Please respond to this as soon as possible. I need a true answer. I'm trying to figure out what to do. I'm not trying to harm the fish.
 
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